4 ms·

Unfortunately, Macbooks and Macbook Pros are like this now too :( Apple will say it is necessary to make it as thin and efficient as possible. But that has a

Unfortunately, Macbooks and Macbook Pros are like this now too :( Apple will say it is necessary to make it as thin and efficient as possible. But that has a smell to it. My Dell XPS 15 9550 can be easily serviced : the SDD, Memory, wifi card and battery are all accessible and it doesn't sacrifice (much) thinness or weight to accomplish. I sometimes wonder if the customer would be OK with Macbooks being 1mm thicker with user replaceable parts. There is only so thin you can go... If Apple wants claim to tell a sustainability story or to be "green" this planned obsolescence stuff needs to go.

reificator 9y ago
Yeah, I brought up the MBP specifically because they've always been kind of unpleasant to work on. But at least you used to be able to. My surface died yesterday and if I don't have a warranty still, it's dead to me. I'm not sure I'm even going to try opening it up based on what I've seen.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
natch 9y ago
While it is true that Apple laptops have been getting thinner, the rest of your comment is severely out of step with reality. MacBooks and MacBook Pros do have repair options. At least until they are obsolete. And since Apple caps the price the consumer pays for parts at a set per-model limit, the repairs can be surprisingly reasonable, especially if several major repairs are done at once. We had a top cover with keyboard, battery, motherboard, and MagSafe charging board all replaced with new ones for a total of under $400, a low price that was then waived because we had AppleCare. As far as sustainability and being green, Apple takes computers for recycling at its stores. Where I live they also have a dedicated electronics drop off spot separate from the store, but then I am in Silicon Valley. They then have centers which break down the computers into parts, eventually recovering precious metals and reusable components and responsibly dealing with hazardous waste. I have visited this place and seen it happening with my own eyes. Not on some arranged fake tour, but from the back door, catching glimpses of what was going on inside, while dropping stuff off. They are being acclaimed for all this work they are doing. I'm not sure what other option you see, given that we all demand power upgrades with every new system we buy. There is also the hacking risk which everyone on your side of this discussion loves to overlook. If it's easy to install bugging devices in a household member's laptop, then it will happen all the time. Apple is a big target. Instead of a hugely fragmented hardware ecosystem where makers of rogue, key logging, components don't even know which model to target, Apple presents a unified attack surface, and thus needs to be better defended. It really makes no sense for them to make it easy for me to hack your laptop so that I can destroy your privacy. It makes all the sense in the world for them to protect their user's hardware from unauthorized tampering. I hate that I can't repair my own device. But there are some good, valid user-centric reasons for it, not just the profit-centric reason the outraged anti-Apple crowd assumes.
- Kadin 9y ago
  > unauthorized tampering The rub is in who is doing the authorization? Increasingly it's the manufacturer, not the user. That is a gaping chasm of a difference. I don't think many people really want to punt on that to the manufacturer for the lifetime of the device; they just aren't thinking about the implications when they are purchasing it. The idea that they will almost certainly want to do something during the lifetime of that device, that the manufacturer might not want them to be able to, is a sort of buried and non-obvious risk, since what the manufacturer might allow is both subject to change and not necessarily clear upfront.
- glenneroo 9y ago
  I think you missed his main point: > the SDD, Memory, wifi card and battery are all accessible That means you don't need to bring it in to a certified repair center. I looked up his laptop model, all one needs is a standard Philips-head and a M2 x 3mm Torx screwdriver (I have a Torx kit from eBay that I got for ~8 Euro). p.s. Apple laptops used to be user-serviceable. In fact, I recently upgraded a several older MacBooks with SSDs and only it took a couple minutes.
  - bproven 9y ago
    Yeah - that is sort of what prompted me to comment as well. I was able to do the same thing to an old 2008 Macbook unibody. After replacing the HDD with an SSD (easy to do and huge perf change) its a good box for everyday stuff.
- bproven 9y ago
  Point taken - I guess I should have said user serviceable for upgrades. When you can do this you are able to get more life out of a laptop and avoid having to discard it for a new one. I'm pretty sure on Macbooks today you cannot upgrade the internals b/c they are sealed and permanently soldered to the mainboards. IMO I don't see huge advantage for it being any lighter or thinner than they are today in order to give up the option. I know I don't have a choice if I want to own a Mac and for the most part that's OK. However, as an Apple customer I wish they would engineer this in to allow people to easily extend the life/function of their products (thus reducing the load on landfills). I was not trying to be anti-Apple fanboy - I do enjoy Macs (and have had several over the years). :)

reificator 9y ago

Yeah, I brought up the MBP specifically because they've always been kind of unpleasant to work on. But at least you used to be able to. My surface died yesterday and if I don't have a warranty still, it's dead to me. I'm not sure I'm even going to try opening it up based on what I've seen.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

natch 9y ago

While it is true that Apple laptops have been getting thinner, the rest of your comment is severely out of step with reality. MacBooks and MacBook Pros do have repair options. At least until they are obsolete. And since Apple caps the price the consumer pays for parts at a set per-model limit, the repairs can be surprisingly reasonable, especially if several major repairs are done at once. We had a top cover with keyboard, battery, motherboard, and MagSafe charging board all replaced with new ones for a total of under $400, a low price that was then waived because we had AppleCare. As far as sustainability and being green, Apple takes computers for recycling at its stores. Where I live they also have a dedicated electronics drop off spot separate from the store, but then I am in Silicon Valley. They then have centers which break down the computers into parts, eventually recovering precious metals and reusable components and responsibly dealing with hazardous waste. I have visited this place and seen it happening with my own eyes. Not on some arranged fake tour, but from the back door, catching glimpses of what was going on inside, while dropping stuff off. They are being acclaimed for all this work they are doing. I'm not sure what other option you see, given that we all demand power upgrades with every new system we buy. There is also the hacking risk which everyone on your side of this discussion loves to overlook. If it's easy to install bugging devices in a household member's laptop, then it will happen all the time. Apple is a big target. Instead of a hugely fragmented hardware ecosystem where makers of rogue, key logging, components don't even know which model to target, Apple presents a unified attack surface, and thus needs to be better defended. It really makes no sense for them to make it easy for me to hack your laptop so that I can destroy your privacy. It makes all the sense in the world for them to protect their user's hardware from unauthorized tampering. I hate that I can't repair my own device. But there are some good, valid user-centric reasons for it, not just the profit-centric reason the outraged anti-Apple crowd assumes.

Kadin 9y ago
> unauthorized tampering The rub is in who is doing the authorization? Increasingly it's the manufacturer, not the user. That is a gaping chasm of a difference. I don't think many people really want to punt on that to the manufacturer for the lifetime of the device; they just aren't thinking about the implications when they are purchasing it. The idea that they will almost certainly want to do something during the lifetime of that device, that the manufacturer might not want them to be able to, is a sort of buried and non-obvious risk, since what the manufacturer might allow is both subject to change and not necessarily clear upfront.
glenneroo 9y ago
I think you missed his main point: > the SDD, Memory, wifi card and battery are all accessible That means you don't need to bring it in to a certified repair center. I looked up his laptop model, all one needs is a standard Philips-head and a M2 x 3mm Torx screwdriver (I have a Torx kit from eBay that I got for ~8 Euro). p.s. Apple laptops used to be user-serviceable. In fact, I recently upgraded a several older MacBooks with SSDs and only it took a couple minutes.
- bproven 9y ago
  Yeah - that is sort of what prompted me to comment as well. I was able to do the same thing to an old 2008 Macbook unibody. After replacing the HDD with an SSD (easy to do and huge perf change) its a good box for everyday stuff.
bproven 9y ago
Point taken - I guess I should have said user serviceable for upgrades. When you can do this you are able to get more life out of a laptop and avoid having to discard it for a new one. I'm pretty sure on Macbooks today you cannot upgrade the internals b/c they are sealed and permanently soldered to the mainboards. IMO I don't see huge advantage for it being any lighter or thinner than they are today in order to give up the option. I know I don't have a choice if I want to own a Mac and for the most part that's OK. However, as an Apple customer I wish they would engineer this in to allow people to easily extend the life/function of their products (thus reducing the load on landfills). I was not trying to be anti-Apple fanboy - I do enjoy Macs (and have had several over the years). :)