5 ms·

Not just empathy - it's also a sense of drama that's required. A DM writes the story in (semi-)real-time, whereas in CRPGs the "DM" (the writers) have to predic

Not just empathy - it's also a sense of drama that's required. A DM writes the story in (semi-)real-time, whereas in CRPGs the "DM" (the writers) have to predict player actions in advance and railroad the players a lot more in order to get a good story progression going.

taneq 9y ago
This is the key insight which many new DMs seem to miss. D&D isn't a "game", it's a framework for telling an engaging story together.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Kinda. I would say that story is the least important bit when in the moment as a player. It is once the session is over that the story emerges.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  Exactly. I played DnD, asynchronously, over the phone. Hours at a time with the DM, rarely a die rolled.
- arkh 9y ago
  It also goes both ways. The players have to engage and help build the story. I love the Feng Shui RPG for how they insist about the back and forth between player and DM. They also encourage the DM to pre-roll everything to make fights go smoother.
- tehwalrus 9y ago
  This is much more explicit in a different, much simpler RPG called Fate, which is my new favourite. GM'ing (Game, rather than Dungeon Master) is nearly as hard because of the improv story authorship, but the lack of rules-lawyering judgement that is required of you in a D&D game (even in a good edition like 5th, sadly) is not missed.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    A friend of mine is a very good DM in D&D, wrote his own stories, world, etc, and we got a group of 5 people together and played two games before he had to leave, so we disbanded. We very much liked the vibe, though, so I want to get the group together again. Is Fate a good game for inexperienced players (especially with an inexperienced DM)? If not, what would be a simple system to start with and play, but still enjoyable? Fate Accelerated seems to be what I want (I'm not even sure what the differences are with Core, even having read the comparison), but the site doesn't really do a good job selling you the system. EDIT: Man, this site is terrible. It links you to a store where I can't figure out where to buy Fate Core stories, it doesn't tell you what equipment you need, where to get it, jeez.
    - tehwalrus 9y ago
      I don't know much about the difference between Core and Accelerated, I just bought the Fate Core rule book (amazon?) and workout out of it. This is how I run pretty much all my games, buy the book and read it. A new DM should (IMHO) try playing in a game of the specific system run by someone else first, even in a minimalist system like Fate. The thing about Fate is that the jargon is generic fiction terms, rather than medieval fantasy or whatever. So you have to read the rules cover to cover before DMing, and make sure to jump forward and back to remind yourself of definitions etc. Once you get going, and are familiar with the two or three mechanics you can use, it's very liberating though! If it's what I think it is, you should be able to start with Accelerated and then convert to Core if some things aren't working (i.e. it's too simple).
      - StavrosK 9y ago
        I see, thank you. Do you only need the book? The site mentions cards, dice, and various other things, but it doesn't tell you if you actually need those things. > A new DM should (IMHO) try playing in a game of the specific system run by someone else first, even in a minimalist system like Fate. That's going to be impossible, it's already hard to find D&D people in my city, something like Fate is just going to be nonexistent, unfortunately.
Steko 9y ago
Eh, they don't have to (cf Eve), they just decided not to and so they've largely missed the chance for more interesting and sticky player driven story (cf Eve) by following EQ's model of "here's what you do next kids".
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Eve is kind of a different thing, I think. Hardly anyone is actually roleplaying in Eve, for one. For another, most tabletop RPGs give you a fighting chance at being the hero, whereas in Eve you're overwhelmingly likely to be Faceless Extra #54265. There's nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but it scratches a different itch than RPGs.

taneq 9y ago

This is the key insight which many new DMs seem to miss. D&D isn't a "game", it's a framework for telling an engaging story together.

digi_owl 9y ago
Kinda. I would say that story is the least important bit when in the moment as a player. It is once the session is over that the story emerges.
MichaelGG 9y ago
Exactly. I played DnD, asynchronously, over the phone. Hours at a time with the DM, rarely a die rolled.
arkh 9y ago
It also goes both ways. The players have to engage and help build the story. I love the Feng Shui RPG for how they insist about the back and forth between player and DM. They also encourage the DM to pre-roll everything to make fights go smoother.
tehwalrus 9y ago
This is much more explicit in a different, much simpler RPG called Fate, which is my new favourite. GM'ing (Game, rather than Dungeon Master) is nearly as hard because of the improv story authorship, but the lack of rules-lawyering judgement that is required of you in a D&D game (even in a good edition like 5th, sadly) is not missed.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  A friend of mine is a very good DM in D&D, wrote his own stories, world, etc, and we got a group of 5 people together and played two games before he had to leave, so we disbanded. We very much liked the vibe, though, so I want to get the group together again. Is Fate a good game for inexperienced players (especially with an inexperienced DM)? If not, what would be a simple system to start with and play, but still enjoyable? Fate Accelerated seems to be what I want (I'm not even sure what the differences are with Core, even having read the comparison), but the site doesn't really do a good job selling you the system. EDIT: Man, this site is terrible. It links you to a store where I can't figure out where to buy Fate Core stories, it doesn't tell you what equipment you need, where to get it, jeez.
  - tehwalrus 9y ago
    I don't know much about the difference between Core and Accelerated, I just bought the Fate Core rule book (amazon?) and workout out of it. This is how I run pretty much all my games, buy the book and read it. A new DM should (IMHO) try playing in a game of the specific system run by someone else first, even in a minimalist system like Fate. The thing about Fate is that the jargon is generic fiction terms, rather than medieval fantasy or whatever. So you have to read the rules cover to cover before DMing, and make sure to jump forward and back to remind yourself of definitions etc. Once you get going, and are familiar with the two or three mechanics you can use, it's very liberating though! If it's what I think it is, you should be able to start with Accelerated and then convert to Core if some things aren't working (i.e. it's too simple).
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      I see, thank you. Do you only need the book? The site mentions cards, dice, and various other things, but it doesn't tell you if you actually need those things. > A new DM should (IMHO) try playing in a game of the specific system run by someone else first, even in a minimalist system like Fate. That's going to be impossible, it's already hard to find D&D people in my city, something like Fate is just going to be nonexistent, unfortunately.

Steko 9y ago

Eh, they don't have to (cf Eve), they just decided not to and so they've largely missed the chance for more interesting and sticky player driven story (cf Eve) by following EQ's model of "here's what you do next kids".

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Eve is kind of a different thing, I think. Hardly anyone is actually roleplaying in Eve, for one. For another, most tabletop RPGs give you a fighting chance at being the hero, whereas in Eve you're overwhelmingly likely to be Faceless Extra #54265. There's nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but it scratches a different itch than RPGs.