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Income inequality is exacerbated by low income housing programs. If wages in NYC are so low that people can't afford to live there, then those people should le

Income inequality is exacerbated by low income housing programs. If wages in NYC are so low that people can't afford to live there, then those people should leave. If we must have a government program, then let's create one that helps people relocate to greener pastures. By decreasing labor supply, wages will rise until incomes and housing prices are in parity. Low income housing programs do the opposite, they artificially increase the labor pool of people who can accept lower wages which of course applies downward pressure on wages. >mortgage interest deduction I agree we should get rid of that.

door 9y ago
NYC should not be an enclave for the rich. It should be affordable and accessible to everyone. I don't care about the whims of the market, I believe strongly in that principle, as do many new yorkers.
pjc50 9y ago
"Remove all the poor people" is a policy that's been tried before with considerable social costs; it breaks up communities and tends to move people to places that are cheaper because they are worse. The city is the greener pasture - that's where the jobs are. Low income housing does tend to act as a subsidy for landlords and low pay employers. Perhaps we could shortcut the misery of a whole bunch of people having to move and just raise wages directly, e.g. via a rise in the minimum wage? Tying minimum wage to some function of house price and interest rates would be amazing.
- cdoxsey 9y ago
  A minimum wage is not direct. It's payed via an employer who also has the option of choosing not to hire someone or paying under the table. The minimum wage is always 0, so this policy will likely lead to more misery.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    > choosing not to hire someone .. which is also an option in the "drive out the poor people" scenario, no? Also, have we given up on the idea of making businesses try to obey the law?
  - everheardofc 9y ago
    That's optimistic. The minimum wage can be far below zero.
- averagewall 9y ago
  Cheaper because they're worse? Doesn't that just mean cheaper because they have too many poor people and poor people create problems for their neighbors? Those same individuals are always going to live somewhere, and always going to cause trouble for their neighbors.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  >Tying minimum wage to some function of house price and interest rates would be amazing. My point is that the effective minimum wage is already tied to housing prices and interest rates. Get rid of low income housing, some poor people will leave, demand for labor will cause incomes to rise. You're trying to solve the problem you created with low income housing by creating a new problem with hiking the minimum wage. The minimum wage demands that employers prejudice against the lowest skilled, lowest educated members of the work force by denying them the opportunity get training and experience by working. But that's okay, I'm sure next you'll tell me the solution to this new problem you created is to increase government spending on education and training for adults, and the cycle will continue.
averagewall 9y ago
A problem with that is people will be desperate enough for those now higher-paying jobs that they'll spend hours commuting from distant cheaper places. All that time spent commuting is equivalent to getting a lower hourly wage. We've already figured out that having no minimum wage lets desperate people suffer worse. That's the argument against "let the market solve it" as I've heard it applied to London. Not sure if it's actually valid or not.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  >A problem with that is people will be desperate enough for those now higher-paying jobs that they'll spend hours commuting from distant cheaper places. All that time spent commuting is equivalent to getting a lower hourly wage. A lower hourly wage which may still result in a net increase in quality of life, right? Because they live in a lower cost of living area. But surely not everyone would commute that distance. >We've already figured out that having no minimum wage lets desperate people suffer worse. That's certainly not what I've figured out. What I've figured out is that we put poor people into low income housing that unsurprisingly has no-choice crappy public schools and then we use the minimum wage to force employers to prejudice against the very people in the low income housing we forced into an education system that doesn't give them the skills/education necessary to earn a decent living. Minimum wage, low income housing, and no-choice public schooling is the holy trinity of liberal policies that harms poor people, and especially minorities, over the long term.

door 9y ago

NYC should not be an enclave for the rich. It should be affordable and accessible to everyone. I don't care about the whims of the market, I believe strongly in that principle, as do many new yorkers.

pjc50 9y ago

"Remove all the poor people" is a policy that's been tried before with considerable social costs; it breaks up communities and tends to move people to places that are cheaper because they are worse. The city is the greener pasture - that's where the jobs are. Low income housing does tend to act as a subsidy for landlords and low pay employers. Perhaps we could shortcut the misery of a whole bunch of people having to move and just raise wages directly, e.g. via a rise in the minimum wage? Tying minimum wage to some function of house price and interest rates would be amazing.

cdoxsey 9y ago
A minimum wage is not direct. It's payed via an employer who also has the option of choosing not to hire someone or paying under the table. The minimum wage is always 0, so this policy will likely lead to more misery.
- pjc50 9y ago
  > choosing not to hire someone .. which is also an option in the "drive out the poor people" scenario, no? Also, have we given up on the idea of making businesses try to obey the law?
- everheardofc 9y ago
  That's optimistic. The minimum wage can be far below zero.
averagewall 9y ago
Cheaper because they're worse? Doesn't that just mean cheaper because they have too many poor people and poor people create problems for their neighbors? Those same individuals are always going to live somewhere, and always going to cause trouble for their neighbors.
Consultant32452 9y ago
>Tying minimum wage to some function of house price and interest rates would be amazing. My point is that the effective minimum wage is already tied to housing prices and interest rates. Get rid of low income housing, some poor people will leave, demand for labor will cause incomes to rise. You're trying to solve the problem you created with low income housing by creating a new problem with hiking the minimum wage. The minimum wage demands that employers prejudice against the lowest skilled, lowest educated members of the work force by denying them the opportunity get training and experience by working. But that's okay, I'm sure next you'll tell me the solution to this new problem you created is to increase government spending on education and training for adults, and the cycle will continue.

averagewall 9y ago

A problem with that is people will be desperate enough for those now higher-paying jobs that they'll spend hours commuting from distant cheaper places. All that time spent commuting is equivalent to getting a lower hourly wage. We've already figured out that having no minimum wage lets desperate people suffer worse. That's the argument against "let the market solve it" as I've heard it applied to London. Not sure if it's actually valid or not.

Consultant32452 9y ago
>A problem with that is people will be desperate enough for those now higher-paying jobs that they'll spend hours commuting from distant cheaper places. All that time spent commuting is equivalent to getting a lower hourly wage. A lower hourly wage which may still result in a net increase in quality of life, right? Because they live in a lower cost of living area. But surely not everyone would commute that distance. >We've already figured out that having no minimum wage lets desperate people suffer worse. That's certainly not what I've figured out. What I've figured out is that we put poor people into low income housing that unsurprisingly has no-choice crappy public schools and then we use the minimum wage to force employers to prejudice against the very people in the low income housing we forced into an education system that doesn't give them the skills/education necessary to earn a decent living. Minimum wage, low income housing, and no-choice public schooling is the holy trinity of liberal policies that harms poor people, and especially minorities, over the long term.