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I'm a Florida native. Many of the issues in Cape Coral are common to other cities and regions in Florida. I've been toying with the idea of suggesting that we d
by mcculley 9y ago
I'm a Florida native. Many of the issues in Cape Coral are common to other cities and regions in Florida. I've been toying with the idea of suggesting that we deny political franchise to immigrant residents (e.g., retirees). We should allow voting only to those born here and those who have made a commitment to the state beyond their own lifetimes (e.g., raising children here). I'm 45. For my whole life, every issue around infrastructure is politicized between retirees on a fixed income who are not willing to pay taxes for infrastructure from which they will largely not benefit and younger people who want more infrastructure (e.g., because they have jobs to go to and would like better roads or they have children and would like better schools). The baby boomers and other retirees simply outnumber the active citizens, so such measures get voted down. These demographics are changing, but it will still be decades before matters improve.
- baus 9y agoI've never heard the idea floated of denying the right to vote to state residents. That's pretty reactionary
- tareqak 9y agoIsn't this similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States#Prisoners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St... ?
- mcculley 9y agoI don't think such a proposal would get any support. I'm not even sure it's a good idea. But I do think it is a useful gedankenexperiment. The political franchise should not be given to those with no skin in the game.
- JBReefer 9y agoYou have reinvented Jim Crow laws, one of our greatest national shames. The fact that you think this is OK is fucking horrifying.
- mcculley 9y agoI meant this in the same vein as Swift's "Modest Proposal" to prompt discussion. You can be less fucking horrified.
- pythonaut_16 9y agoI think that's one of the arguments for originally only allowing property owners to vote.
- MaysonL 9y agoSearch "voter suppression" for what's being done now in this regard.
- neuland 9y agoThis is an interesting idea; it would certainly appeal to Bay Area NIMBYs. They find themselves in essentially the opposite position as what you describe. They are more organized and actually vote, despite being (presumably) vastly outnumbered by transplants in the Bay Area. But, this is theoretically the process "working". Power goes to people who show up. So it doesn't really matter what people want if they don't bother to take part in the political process. (Or if they vote fair and square and are just not in the majority) There are minority protections in our system. But, it's really tough to get them right. For example, rules that were supposed to protect the minority in the Bay Area are now being used to block any housing development or infrastructure projects. But, I'm honestly interested to hear your thoughts. Why should we weigh living in a place for a long time heavier? Isn't the retirees voting down infrastructure serving the needs of the majority of residents (by keeping taxes low)?
- mcculley 9y agoYou make a good point that it is the will of the majority. I just think it isn't fair to the children who attend overcrowded schools and the people who have to get to jobs and want better roads.
- neuland 9y agoThe same (concerns) can be said of other ways of life though. For example, I live in an area that used to be basically all farmland. Slowly but surely, city people have moved out and crowded out all the farmers. Those new suburbanites voted/continue to vote to increase taxes for roads, rail, great schools, etc. But from the perspective of the farmer, I can imagine many of them are bitter that they had to sell their multi-generational family farm. Given that and many other similar scenarios (ex. gentrified city neighborhoods), the broader problem is that... - Different groups of people have different interests (some want low taxes, some high. some want single family houses with nice back yards, others mixed use walkable urban utopias) - Groups (mostly ones with more money) can swiftly move to a new area and disrupt the previous political power structure It's definitely possible that the old residents can move to a new place. In fact, I think that this is the only real answer. Anything else comes off as a violation of people's basic rights. You can't really expect to take people's votes away. You can't really prevent people from selling their property to who they want (except in an HOA scenario). Actually, maybe that is a way out. More aggressive HOA communities that make sure residents have a shared vision for their town.
- twic 9y agoBetter yet: don't let anyone over 60 vote, regardless of where they're from. People don't get to vote for the first 18 years of their life, i suppose because they don't know enough to do so responsibly, so why should they get to vote in the last 18 years of their life, when they evidently don't care enough to do so responsibly?
- mcculley 9y agoI don't know. I think the residents here who have grandchildren and adult children who also live here are less likely to vote down any improvements.
- internetman55 9y agoThat seems like a reasonable heuristic. I'm not really educated on the subject, but I think it has been used in the past (trust is conferred to countrymen with children, since they have skin in the game).
- kylek 9y agoIt fascinates me how much we hate our elderly when some societies did(/do?) consider them their most valuable minds. Are people living too long? Or maybe adults need restricted screen time too?
- mcculley 9y agoI am not sure who you mean by "we". I don't hate the elderly. Do you? I think immigrant retirees to Florida are acting rationally, seeing a benefit in the free market of real estate and taxation regimes. I'm pointing out that this creates externalities and perverse incentives.
- norlys 9y agoActually... I think it comes from the "everyone fights for their own interests against others" - way of thinking. In Europe it's a bit different, I guess. Here, it's more about collaboration and the realization that society is a common ground that needs to be cared for.
- pklausler 9y agoAs the saying goes, you can vote with your feet.
- mcculley 9y agoYes, I could emigrate. That doesn't solve the problem I see with the region.
- pklausler 9y agoExtrapolate what the region looks like when everybody who can relocate elsewhere and get a better quality of life has done so.
- mcculley 9y agoIt looks pretty much the same, in my estimation. The service industry employees remain to serve the retirees. The children of those employees continue to attend overcrowded schools.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- a3n 9y ago> suggesting that we deny political franchise to immigrant residents (e.g., retirees). You could do that if you seceded. Otherwise it sounds kind of disenfranchising. We already have too much of that going on in the U.S. for other kinds of prejudice.
- mcculley 9y agoFlorida tried to secede once. In this part of the Land of the Free, I don’t think anybody wants a modern version of Sherman’s March to the Sea.