4 ms·

How LearnBoost listened to teachers, built new Web-based gradebook

21 points by waderoush 16y ago

maukdaddy 16y ago
I could go on for hours on this topic, but here are a few points off the top of my head (I work in Infosec for one of the largest districts in the country): - Security. FERPA, student information, disclosure laws, etc. If you want districts to use this service, then you are going to have to get VERY serious about security and document it well. A lot of contracts will want indemnification for data breaches, some huge insurance amount, etc. - Interoperability. For anything more than a single school you better integrate with Active Directory, Novell, or at least offer some type of LDAP integration with an authentication store. The web-based, we store your login credentials model, doesn't scale well for multiple schools. - Interoperability v2. Student Information Systems (SI) are FAR more complex than just the gradebook software. Usually the gradebook software must integrate with scheduling software, reporting software, some type of long-term storage/report card/transcript software, special ed software, analytics/reporting software, horrible 1980s state reporting software, etc. At the very least you're going to need a way to send/receive data back and forth. Securely. - Parents. Online access to Little Johnny's grades, assignments, etc is a must these days. Helicopter parents want to know every damn assignment little Johnny had today, what grades he got, why in the hell he didn't get 100% like he should have. That data better be available via web site, email, and text messages. Oh and how do you tie a student to a particular parent? What about divorces? The complexity around this is huge. - School districts. You might find it difficult to get single schools to use their own gradebook software (charter/private schools are easier). A lot of districts mandate that schools use one, centralized gradebook system for obvious reasons (see Interoperability). If you don't have every enterprisey feature the district demands, you won't get the business. Gaining traction in larger school districts is tough. The bureaucracy is every bit as crushing as the Federal government. With all of that being said, this is a market that is RIPE for exploitation. SI systems SUCK, usability is atrocious, and the vendors bend school districts over to shake $$$ out. A lot of the current systems are inefficient as well (think 30+ web servers just for the front end). One area you might want to market heavily - the cost savings from outsourcing the technology. Districts spend a fortune running their own servers, datacenters, tech staff, etc. for SI systems. As budgets get worse, showing a cost savings by outsourcing will look more attractive. But you're going to be fighting a VERY ingrained resistance to giving up control of data to a 3rd party. * Views expressed are my own and not representative of my employer, and other such caveats
- dhimes 16y ago
  You are exactly correct on this. Gradebook software that doesn't have parent access (and cover the associated problems and security issues) and interoperability with other SIS is a solution without a problem. Or perhaps better: a problem with many solutions, including Google spreadsheets.
  - ktsmith 16y ago
    The parental access is a really small piece depending on where you are. The larger the district the more important it is from what I've seen. The district my wife teaches in just moved over to Infinite Campus and it has very little to do with the parental access features and everything to do with the data retention and security issues, federal accountability, and all the tracking features. It's horrible software but it checks all of the boxes on the bean counters and mid level managers check lists at the district and state offices. In addition to adding the new software it's been mandated that every teacher use it and all other grade book software has been banned. Even if what learnboost is producing is the most amazing thing in the world these teachers can't use it. The existing system is such a pain in the ass there is also the added issue of no teacher wanting to do double data entry. Any company that wants to break the stranglehold these companies have in the space is going to have to come in with a complete solution at a lower cost. Most of the software will also be required to run within the existing infrastructure or be dropped in, so forget about running on one of the various cloud infrastructures.
    - dhimes 16y ago
      Interesting. and all the tracking features What do they track? The kids' progress through the grades?
      - ktsmith 16y ago
        Well, tracking the kids through the grades is already done via cumulative files. Those contain grades, scores on standardized tests, records of disciplinary action, records of social services issues and that type of thing. All of that is being digitized now. In addition to all of that things like attendance are tracked with finer granularity as it's directly related to school funding. Then there's things like what period of time was the student on the free and reduced lunch program. How many meals did they receive during that time. That all gets tracked, again, for federal funding purposes. I'd have to pull out the Infinite Campus manual to get the details on some of the other things that are tracked, but I was quite surprised at all of it when I first saw it. Unfortunately in addition to their primary role as education, teachers are being asked to do more and more paper pushing and handling other duties pushed on them by politicians. Some of the data they keep track of is useful. For example, it's very difficult to get kids into the special ed program these days. You have to put kids through various phases of testing, and each phase requires a different amount of time between them or different benchmarks for evaluation. Some of these systems can keep track of that so as a child moves through the grades each teacher can pick up where the last left off. Sometimes it can take a couple of years for a child to start receiving special education services which is unfortunate because at that point they are even further behind where they should be. This is the direct result of parents not wanting their kids singled out or alienated by being labeled special education. So in that case the tracking is probably a good thing since there are definitive records of what steps have been completed.
kgrin 16y ago
Curious whether these guys will have Blackboard waving its (many bogus) patents at them...
- ktsmith 16y ago
  I didn't think blackboard had any patents pertaining to grade books but in their collaboration and online lesson pieces. Even so, most of them wouldn't likely hold up in court now due to Bilski.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

21 points by waderoush 16y ago

I could go on for hours on this topic, but here are a few points off the top of my head (I work in Infosec for one of the largest districts in the country): - Security. FERPA, student information, disclosure laws, etc. If you want districts to use this service, then you are going to have to get VERY serious about security and document it well. A lot of contracts will want indemnification for data breaches, some huge insurance amount, etc. - Interoperability. For anything more than a single school you better integrate with Active Directory, Novell, or at least offer some type of LDAP integration with an authentication store. The web-based, we store your login credentials model, doesn't scale well for multiple schools. - Interoperability v2. Student Information Systems (SI) are FAR more complex than just the gradebook software. Usually the gradebook software must integrate with scheduling software, reporting software, some type of long-term storage/report card/transcript software, special ed software, analytics/reporting software, horrible 1980s state reporting software, etc. At the very least you're going to need a way to send/receive data back and forth. Securely. - Parents. Online access to Little Johnny's grades, assignments, etc is a must these days. Helicopter parents want to know every damn assignment little Johnny had today, what grades he got, why in the hell he didn't get 100% like he should have. That data better be available via web site, email, and text messages. Oh and how do you tie a student to a particular parent? What about divorces? The complexity around this is huge. - School districts. You might find it difficult to get single schools to use their own gradebook software (charter/private schools are easier). A lot of districts mandate that schools use one, centralized gradebook system for obvious reasons (see Interoperability). If you don't have every enterprisey feature the district demands, you won't get the business. Gaining traction in larger school districts is tough. The bureaucracy is every bit as crushing as the Federal government. With all of that being said, this is a market that is RIPE for exploitation. SI systems SUCK, usability is atrocious, and the vendors bend school districts over to shake $$$ out. A lot of the current systems are inefficient as well (think 30+ web servers just for the front end). One area you might want to market heavily - the cost savings from outsourcing the technology. Districts spend a fortune running their own servers, datacenters, tech staff, etc. for SI systems. As budgets get worse, showing a cost savings by outsourcing will look more attractive. But you're going to be fighting a VERY ingrained resistance to giving up control of data to a 3rd party. * Views expressed are my own and not representative of my employer, and other such caveats

dhimes 16y ago
You are exactly correct on this. Gradebook software that doesn't have parent access (and cover the associated problems and security issues) and interoperability with other SIS is a solution without a problem. Or perhaps better: a problem with many solutions, including Google spreadsheets.
- ktsmith 16y ago
  The parental access is a really small piece depending on where you are. The larger the district the more important it is from what I've seen. The district my wife teaches in just moved over to Infinite Campus and it has very little to do with the parental access features and everything to do with the data retention and security issues, federal accountability, and all the tracking features. It's horrible software but it checks all of the boxes on the bean counters and mid level managers check lists at the district and state offices. In addition to adding the new software it's been mandated that every teacher use it and all other grade book software has been banned. Even if what learnboost is producing is the most amazing thing in the world these teachers can't use it. The existing system is such a pain in the ass there is also the added issue of no teacher wanting to do double data entry. Any company that wants to break the stranglehold these companies have in the space is going to have to come in with a complete solution at a lower cost. Most of the software will also be required to run within the existing infrastructure or be dropped in, so forget about running on one of the various cloud infrastructures.
  - dhimes 16y ago
    Interesting. and all the tracking features What do they track? The kids' progress through the grades?
    - ktsmith 16y ago
      Well, tracking the kids through the grades is already done via cumulative files. Those contain grades, scores on standardized tests, records of disciplinary action, records of social services issues and that type of thing. All of that is being digitized now. In addition to all of that things like attendance are tracked with finer granularity as it's directly related to school funding. Then there's things like what period of time was the student on the free and reduced lunch program. How many meals did they receive during that time. That all gets tracked, again, for federal funding purposes. I'd have to pull out the Infinite Campus manual to get the details on some of the other things that are tracked, but I was quite surprised at all of it when I first saw it. Unfortunately in addition to their primary role as education, teachers are being asked to do more and more paper pushing and handling other duties pushed on them by politicians. Some of the data they keep track of is useful. For example, it's very difficult to get kids into the special ed program these days. You have to put kids through various phases of testing, and each phase requires a different amount of time between them or different benchmarks for evaluation. Some of these systems can keep track of that so as a child moves through the grades each teacher can pick up where the last left off. Sometimes it can take a couple of years for a child to start receiving special education services which is unfortunate because at that point they are even further behind where they should be. This is the direct result of parents not wanting their kids singled out or alienated by being labeled special education. So in that case the tracking is probably a good thing since there are definitive records of what steps have been completed.

kgrin 16y ago

Curious whether these guys will have Blackboard waving its (many bogus) patents at them...

ktsmith 16y ago
I didn't think blackboard had any patents pertaining to grade books but in their collaboration and online lesson pieces. Even so, most of them wouldn't likely hold up in court now due to Bilski.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]