7 ms·

Oracle rebrands Java, breaks Eclipse

61 points by Garbage 16y ago

smackfu 16y ago
I'm still pissed at them for pushing out a point update that introduced a new security check that many, many Java applets failed, and that required a JAR rebuild to get rid of the warning dialog.
davidw 16y ago
Wow. They changed a name property - something that you probably shouldn't be using programmatically a great deal - and it broke Eclipse.
- strlen 16y ago
  I wonder how much this must have been already boning people over before who were using OpenJDK (or other JDKs bug for bug compatible with the Sun JDK but without the Sun string).
- tptacek 16y ago
  I got the impression that this story wanted me to be irritated at Oracle, but was left with the impression that this problem has nothing at all to do with Oracle.
  - davidw 16y ago
    Yeah, the title made it look like Oracle did something sneaky and caused a problem. The problem was someone writing code that was very, very far away from "write once, run anywhere".
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - SoftwareMaven 16y ago
      Anybody who still believes in "write once, run anywhere" has never tried deploying to multiple platforms. "Write once, debug everywhere" is more like it, which is why Eclipse has some weird property check that is Windows only in the first place. That said, the JVM is probably the best environment for doing cross-platform deployment.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - icey 16y ago
    Oddly, I finished the article with an improved opinion of Oracle. They were willing to change the property back because of a bug in Eclipse... That's quite a bit more give than I would have expected from Oracle. Of course, it might have been wise PR as the problem only showed up after updating the JDK. It would have been easy for developers to blame the wrong party.
drivebyacct2 16y ago
"Who fixes a bug by making something dependent on the dll/exe company name? Stupid...How are those outsourced indians working for you now Oracle and Sun!!!!" Uh, did Oracle/Sun develop Eclipse?
- eplanit 16y ago
  No, IBM and Object Technology International did.
- sandGorgon 16y ago
  SandGorgon's law: As an online discussion about PROGRAMMING grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving outsourcing or Indians approaches 1, if Godwin's law has not already been satisfied
  - unwantedLetters 16y ago
    For those of you that don't know Godwin's law, it states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".
    - redrobot5050 16y ago
      Actually, Godwin's law states the the probably of comparing your opponent/opposing side to the Nazis or Hitler approaches one. You need that ad hominem for it to be a Godwin.
      - unwantedLetters 16y ago
        Ah, sorry. I didn't actually know the law. Looked it up on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law It's wrongly stated there, so you might want to change it there as well.
        redrobot5050 16y ago
mattmcknight 16y ago
I find this amusing because in 2002 I downloaded Oracle JDeveloper IDE to try it out and it replaced files in my JRE directory with their own version that caused my JBoss to break. They have a lot of experience breaking Java. On the other hand, this is really an Eclipse bug.
zyb09 16y ago
How could they not notice Eclipse doesn't work anymore before releasing the update? Are they forced to use Netbeans?
- m_myers 16y ago
  Well, it could be worse. They could be forced to use Eclipse.
  - Karzyn 16y ago
    What would you recommend? I'm not being snarky but actually considering an editor switch.
    - axod 16y ago
      textmate is ok enough :/ IMHO It 'works'.
      - noarchy 16y ago
        I draw my code in the sand outside, and then have a scribe enter it into a terminal at some later point. This 'works'. But really, having a good IDE isn't a bad thing, is it? Does it make me less of a tough guy if I use one?
        axod 16y ago
        My IDE is the terminal. I don't want that in a text editor. I use a text editor to edit text, and a terminal to do everything else. As long as it can do syntax highlighting, copy paste, line numbering, can show files/dirs in a tree so you can select files easily, I don't want anything else. Obviously I can understand that other people love clicking on "create a function" in their IDE, or tab completing variable names, or clicking on "build/run". But it's just not for me. Even the quote/bracket auto-insertion in textmate drove me crazy until I disabled it. All that extra crap 'refactor!' 'language bundles' etc. <anecdotal> The code I have seen (Java) produced from programmers using IDEs has been universally horrible. Full of duplication useless boilerplate and general rubbish. </anecdotal> If you were writing a novel, would you have a menu with common book 'patterns', or tab complete the character names? For me, it interrupts my flow. There is a popular myth that you 'need' to use an IDE to code Java. Which is just ridiculous. Perhaps it's a self fulfilling prophecy though. Code produced by IDEs isn't nice to look at so you need to edit it in another IDE, or spend an hour cleaning out all the rubbish. </rant against IDEs which I detest>
jmount 16y ago
Just wow. Using the Java VM non-transparently and hanging a bunch of stuff on properties and mere conventions seems really slick until it all starts breaking.
yumraj 16y ago
This is really an Eclipse f-up than anything. A better title for this story would have been: Eclipse bug exposed when Oracle rebranded Java
- keefe 16y ago
  I think this is really making a mouse into an elephant for linkbait. It's really a perfect reasonable solution - check company name to see if this is a JVM where we need to poke the default options. Company name changes, source and users need to be updated and users always had a workaround of specifying perm size anyway. It's just a nothing story : dependency of an open source project changes, open source project required patch/workaround.
- dfranke 16y ago
  Yes. When I saw the headline I was expecting that Oracle did something gratuitous and stupid like renaming a standard package to start with com.oracle or whatnot. But for this, the Eclipse folks have nobody to blame but themselves.
- JoachimSchipper 16y ago
  In the sense that Eclipse is bloated, yes; but there is quite possibly no portable way to fix this. And Oracle really should have tested stuff, even if Eclipse did do something stupid.
  - Tamerlin 16y ago
    So you're saying that Oracle should be responsible for the defects in a 3rd party product?
    - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
      If you're building a platform, yes, you should at least be testing your point releases against a handful of the most popular applications that run on your platform, because things like this, even if caused by bad decisions in those 3rd party applications, look bad against the platform as a whole. If this was a big feature release like JDK7, that's one thing, but a bugfix release is completely different. Edit: Everybody would be grabbing for their pitchforks if Facebook all of a sudden updated their backend and broke FarmVille. It's the same concept.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
Tawheed 16y ago
What a mess.
wazoox 16y ago
This reminds me of the time when websites improperly checked for the browser version, breaking down at each release of Mozilla...
- chadgeidel 16y ago
  And how they still "break" with any version of IE that the programmer doesn't like. Just give me the crapified (text) version already.
stevoski 16y ago
This is a great example of why software maintenance is so hard. People will use features of your software in unexpected ways. Even trivial changes to your software that should be inconsequential are almost always entirely far too consequential.
nileshk 16y ago
If you are already setting the JVM argument for MaxPermSize then I think this issue wouldn't affect you. For example, put "-XX:MaxPermSize=256m" in eclipse.ini
yatsyk 16y ago
Good example of why we need to use feature detection.

61 points by Garbage 16y ago

I'm still pissed at them for pushing out a point update that introduced a new security check that many, many Java applets failed, and that required a JAR rebuild to get rid of the warning dialog.

davidw 16y ago

Wow. They changed a name property - something that you probably shouldn't be using programmatically a great deal - and it broke Eclipse.

strlen 16y ago
I wonder how much this must have been already boning people over before who were using OpenJDK (or other JDKs bug for bug compatible with the Sun JDK but without the Sun string).
tptacek 16y ago
I got the impression that this story wanted me to be irritated at Oracle, but was left with the impression that this problem has nothing at all to do with Oracle.
- davidw 16y ago
  Yeah, the title made it look like Oracle did something sneaky and caused a problem. The problem was someone writing code that was very, very far away from "write once, run anywhere".
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - SoftwareMaven 16y ago
    Anybody who still believes in "write once, run anywhere" has never tried deploying to multiple platforms. "Write once, debug everywhere" is more like it, which is why Eclipse has some weird property check that is Windows only in the first place. That said, the JVM is probably the best environment for doing cross-platform deployment.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- icey 16y ago
  Oddly, I finished the article with an improved opinion of Oracle. They were willing to change the property back because of a bug in Eclipse... That's quite a bit more give than I would have expected from Oracle. Of course, it might have been wise PR as the problem only showed up after updating the JDK. It would have been easy for developers to blame the wrong party.

drivebyacct2 16y ago

"Who fixes a bug by making something dependent on the dll/exe company name? Stupid...How are those outsourced indians working for you now Oracle and Sun!!!!" Uh, did Oracle/Sun develop Eclipse?

eplanit 16y ago
No, IBM and Object Technology International did.
sandGorgon 16y ago
SandGorgon's law: As an online discussion about PROGRAMMING grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving outsourcing or Indians approaches 1, if Godwin's law has not already been satisfied
- unwantedLetters 16y ago
  For those of you that don't know Godwin's law, it states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".
  - redrobot5050 16y ago
    Actually, Godwin's law states the the probably of comparing your opponent/opposing side to the Nazis or Hitler approaches one. You need that ad hominem for it to be a Godwin.
    - unwantedLetters 16y ago
      Ah, sorry. I didn't actually know the law. Looked it up on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law It's wrongly stated there, so you might want to change it there as well.
      - redrobot5050 16y ago

mattmcknight 16y ago

I find this amusing because in 2002 I downloaded Oracle JDeveloper IDE to try it out and it replaced files in my JRE directory with their own version that caused my JBoss to break. They have a lot of experience breaking Java. On the other hand, this is really an Eclipse bug.

zyb09 16y ago

How could they not notice Eclipse doesn't work anymore before releasing the update? Are they forced to use Netbeans?

m_myers 16y ago
Well, it could be worse. They could be forced to use Eclipse.
- Karzyn 16y ago
  What would you recommend? I'm not being snarky but actually considering an editor switch.
  - axod 16y ago
    textmate is ok enough :/ IMHO It 'works'.
    - noarchy 16y ago
      I draw my code in the sand outside, and then have a scribe enter it into a terminal at some later point. This 'works'. But really, having a good IDE isn't a bad thing, is it? Does it make me less of a tough guy if I use one?
      - axod 16y ago
        My IDE is the terminal. I don't want that in a text editor. I use a text editor to edit text, and a terminal to do everything else. As long as it can do syntax highlighting, copy paste, line numbering, can show files/dirs in a tree so you can select files easily, I don't want anything else. Obviously I can understand that other people love clicking on "create a function" in their IDE, or tab completing variable names, or clicking on "build/run". But it's just not for me. Even the quote/bracket auto-insertion in textmate drove me crazy until I disabled it. All that extra crap 'refactor!' 'language bundles' etc. <anecdotal> The code I have seen (Java) produced from programmers using IDEs has been universally horrible. Full of duplication useless boilerplate and general rubbish. </anecdotal> If you were writing a novel, would you have a menu with common book 'patterns', or tab complete the character names? For me, it interrupts my flow. There is a popular myth that you 'need' to use an IDE to code Java. Which is just ridiculous. Perhaps it's a self fulfilling prophecy though. Code produced by IDEs isn't nice to look at so you need to edit it in another IDE, or spend an hour cleaning out all the rubbish. </rant against IDEs which I detest>

jmount 16y ago

Just wow. Using the Java VM non-transparently and hanging a bunch of stuff on properties and mere conventions seems really slick until it all starts breaking.

yumraj 16y ago

This is really an Eclipse f-up than anything. A better title for this story would have been: Eclipse bug exposed when Oracle rebranded Java

keefe 16y ago
I think this is really making a mouse into an elephant for linkbait. It's really a perfect reasonable solution - check company name to see if this is a JVM where we need to poke the default options. Company name changes, source and users need to be updated and users always had a workaround of specifying perm size anyway. It's just a nothing story : dependency of an open source project changes, open source project required patch/workaround.
dfranke 16y ago
Yes. When I saw the headline I was expecting that Oracle did something gratuitous and stupid like renaming a standard package to start with com.oracle or whatnot. But for this, the Eclipse folks have nobody to blame but themselves.
JoachimSchipper 16y ago
In the sense that Eclipse is bloated, yes; but there is quite possibly no portable way to fix this. And Oracle really should have tested stuff, even if Eclipse did do something stupid.
- Tamerlin 16y ago
  So you're saying that Oracle should be responsible for the defects in a 3rd party product?
  - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
    If you're building a platform, yes, you should at least be testing your point releases against a handful of the most popular applications that run on your platform, because things like this, even if caused by bad decisions in those 3rd party applications, look bad against the platform as a whole. If this was a big feature release like JDK7, that's one thing, but a bugfix release is completely different. Edit: Everybody would be grabbing for their pitchforks if Facebook all of a sudden updated their backend and broke FarmVille. It's the same concept.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

Tawheed 16y ago

What a mess.

wazoox 16y ago

This reminds me of the time when websites improperly checked for the browser version, breaking down at each release of Mozilla...

chadgeidel 16y ago
And how they still "break" with any version of IE that the programmer doesn't like. Just give me the crapified (text) version already.

stevoski 16y ago

This is a great example of why software maintenance is so hard. People will use features of your software in unexpected ways. Even trivial changes to your software that should be inconsequential are almost always entirely far too consequential.

nileshk 16y ago

If you are already setting the JVM argument for MaxPermSize then I think this issue wouldn't affect you. For example, put "-XX:MaxPermSize=256m" in eclipse.ini

yatsyk 16y ago

Good example of why we need to use feature detection.