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Since the person behind this project is the sovereign of a nation-state, perhaps they should build a new way of living in their existing cities and society. A

Since the person behind this project is the sovereign of a nation-state, perhaps they should build a new way of living in their existing cities and society. A good place to start would be enshrining basic civil liberties and not bombing civilians in a neighboring country.

derefr 9y ago
Even a dictator still rules at the whim of the people charged with implementing their rules. Sometimes it’s impossible to get the power structure below you to change, even when you can order executions, because the incentives are broken and will keep installing people with desires contrary to your own. The point here, then, might be to build an “insulated” city with a more direct power structure, without the involvement of consolidated power-bases like ministries or civic departments. Immigration to the new zone could be filtered to only allow in people that believe more in the lawful rule of the sovereign themselves (maybe with something like a democratically-elected governor in between) than the rule of government as a whole; and then, eventually, a military et al could be raised from that power-base to convert the rest of the country to the “new” model.
- L_Rahman 9y ago
  This is a fair response and one that lifts from "disruption" like thinking processes. I've made a personal decision however to retreat from "realpolitik" like political analyses because it requires me to play mind games about the probable intentions of the decision maker, their constraints, and the possible outcomes of the decision they made. Holding people to a set of normative values that I believe to be meaningful has been a more useful (if more blunt) meta-construct* * this conversation has me wondering if it might be time to revisit that position
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Since the person behind this project is the sovereign of a nation-state No, the son and heir apparent (and First Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense, and...) of the sovereign of a nation state. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are not the same person.
- L_Rahman 9y ago
  Ha, a fair criticism. I was aware of the distinction, Salman seems to be sovereign in name only these days which is why I took the liberty of framing MBS as the decision maker: > The question now arises: Will the king abdicate the throne and turn power over to the son he clearly trusts? Serious newspapers have raised the possibility. King Salman has already given his son unprecedented power. His nickname is Mr. Everything because he has been given control of the military, the economy (including the oil industry), and even control of the entertainment business. He has been the de facto foreign minister for the last two years, conducting all the important foreign policy issues and visits, including setting up President Donald Trump’s historic visit to the kingdom. He will presumably represent Saudi Arabia at the G-20 meeting in Hamburg. Salman is 81 and suffers from pre-dementia. The state of his health is a closely guarded secret. He has been very busy this year, with a month-long trip to Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, China, and Japan, plus attending the Arab summit in Jordan, as well as hosting Trump and 50 Muslim leaders. So he, apparently, is capable of being in power for some time to come. His brothers have often lived into their 90s.

derefr 9y ago

Even a dictator still rules at the whim of the people charged with implementing their rules. Sometimes it’s impossible to get the power structure below you to change, even when you can order executions, because the incentives are broken and will keep installing people with desires contrary to your own. The point here, then, might be to build an “insulated” city with a more direct power structure, without the involvement of consolidated power-bases like ministries or civic departments. Immigration to the new zone could be filtered to only allow in people that believe more in the lawful rule of the sovereign themselves (maybe with something like a democratically-elected governor in between) than the rule of government as a whole; and then, eventually, a military et al could be raised from that power-base to convert the rest of the country to the “new” model.

L_Rahman 9y ago
This is a fair response and one that lifts from "disruption" like thinking processes. I've made a personal decision however to retreat from "realpolitik" like political analyses because it requires me to play mind games about the probable intentions of the decision maker, their constraints, and the possible outcomes of the decision they made. Holding people to a set of normative values that I believe to be meaningful has been a more useful (if more blunt) meta-construct* * this conversation has me wondering if it might be time to revisit that position

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Since the person behind this project is the sovereign of a nation-state No, the son and heir apparent (and First Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense, and...) of the sovereign of a nation state. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are not the same person.

L_Rahman 9y ago
Ha, a fair criticism. I was aware of the distinction, Salman seems to be sovereign in name only these days which is why I took the liberty of framing MBS as the decision maker: > The question now arises: Will the king abdicate the throne and turn power over to the son he clearly trusts? Serious newspapers have raised the possibility. King Salman has already given his son unprecedented power. His nickname is Mr. Everything because he has been given control of the military, the economy (including the oil industry), and even control of the entertainment business. He has been the de facto foreign minister for the last two years, conducting all the important foreign policy issues and visits, including setting up President Donald Trump’s historic visit to the kingdom. He will presumably represent Saudi Arabia at the G-20 meeting in Hamburg. Salman is 81 and suffers from pre-dementia. The state of his health is a closely guarded secret. He has been very busy this year, with a month-long trip to Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, China, and Japan, plus attending the Arab summit in Jordan, as well as hosting Trump and 50 Muslim leaders. So he, apparently, is capable of being in power for some time to come. His brothers have often lived into their 90s.