4 ms·

Monopolies are a natural phenomenon in capitalism. I'm not sure why people glorify capitalism as much, given the fact that competition is impossibly hard in man

Monopolies are a natural phenomenon in capitalism. I'm not sure why people glorify capitalism as much, given the fact that competition is impossibly hard in many areas, and that to reduce costs, and remove competitive pressure, companies tends to consolidate, i.e. reduce competition. Neither socialism nor capitalism makes sense today. We need a totally new system, but it's really hard to make a dent into the status quo, which is well-entrenched, and would resist any change!

oconnore 9y ago
> We need a totally new system This seems historically ignorant. Most systems of allocating power and resources have been tried at various times. The answer is likely at the end of a long, nuanced, and painful road of combining ideas from several of those systems: adjusting, revisiting, admitting failure, and correcting. I would be skeptical of any "new system" that is not a result of reflection on historical economies.
- nikolay 9y ago
  No, I think your opinion is arrogant and ignorant. All existing systems are based on the technical limitations of the past time. In Australia, for example, there's a good start to integrate new ideas into the existing system - it's called Flux [0]. Edit: to clarify about Flux, it's still using an existing system, i.e. Democracy although it is implemented as Direct and Delegate Democracy within a Representative Democracy system, but, my point was, that such system could be used as a political virus to change the system from within without bloodshed, and then a totally new system can be put in place. [0]: https://voteflux.org/ https://voteflux.org/
astrodust 9y ago
"Socialism" and "capitalism" are not switches you turn either on or off, they're a set of policies and practices you can apply to varying degrees and extremes. The military is quite socialist as when you enlist you're given food, housing, equipment, medical care, and other things to perform your job, but it's also part of a large capitalist system where equipment and supplies are provisioned from a (theoretically) competitive marketplace. What we need to do is find the right balance between dog-eat-dog individualism and insufferable collectivisim.
- nikolay 9y ago
  I disagree that the solution is a balanced one somewhere between the only two puristic and unrealistic options as in both money is key, and I disagree that it should be the centerpiece of our society as it's already proven to be a weak motivator and leads to very negative consequences. There are good things in both orders, we need to learn from them, but something in the middle we already have in EU, and it's not working so well.
  - oconnore 9y ago
    You are trying so hard to escape from a fundamental truth that echoes throughout history: government, money, economy, it's all about power. You can't sidestep the issue of power by throwing technology at it: you will just create an unbalanced, poorly thought out power dynamic (that uses technology!). Technology does not mean you get to throw out your history books. On the contrary, it means you probably need them more than ever. The EU is not perfect, nor is the US, Canada, China, or anywhere else. We need to carefully analyze and experiment, not mash the reset button in the hope we get something better next time.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    Everyone is in the middle because no country, no political state of any kind, has ever been, nor likely ever will be 100% capitalist or 100% socialist. Achieving such extremes is so impractical as to be impossible. The difference between the EU and America is actually pretty slight on these two scales, but tiny shifts in policy can have a huge impact on society.
- nikolay 9y ago
  What do you think about The Venus Project [0] and Jaque Fresco's resource-based economy [1]? Edit: I'm saddened to find out that Jacque has recently passed away. I was planning to meet him in person as he was at an honorable age. [0]: https://www.thevenusproject.com/ https://www.thevenusproject.com/ [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco
dlwdlw 9y ago
There's an interesting fat protocols article on block chain technology by usv. Unlike thin protocols like tcp/up where the value is captured by edge nodes, a fat protocol captures the bulk of the value and the edges are forced into commodity pricing. I think it would be like everyone living in and contributing to the US as an idea. The block chain of the "US" has a good social security net, good public non-profit infrastructure, ample opportunity etc... Or theoretically would/should anyway. In reality it's too prone to corruption and manipulation. If smart contracts get stable and consistent enough (and build up a correspondingly large body of contract law) we end up being able to create entities of faith, things to believe in and rely on but are also fragile in that they need faith to persist as well. "gods" if you will.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

oconnore 9y ago

> We need a totally new system This seems historically ignorant. Most systems of allocating power and resources have been tried at various times. The answer is likely at the end of a long, nuanced, and painful road of combining ideas from several of those systems: adjusting, revisiting, admitting failure, and correcting. I would be skeptical of any "new system" that is not a result of reflection on historical economies.

nikolay 9y ago
No, I think your opinion is arrogant and ignorant. All existing systems are based on the technical limitations of the past time. In Australia, for example, there's a good start to integrate new ideas into the existing system - it's called Flux [0]. Edit: to clarify about Flux, it's still using an existing system, i.e. Democracy although it is implemented as Direct and Delegate Democracy within a Representative Democracy system, but, my point was, that such system could be used as a political virus to change the system from within without bloodshed, and then a totally new system can be put in place. [0]: https://voteflux.org/ https://voteflux.org/

astrodust 9y ago

"Socialism" and "capitalism" are not switches you turn either on or off, they're a set of policies and practices you can apply to varying degrees and extremes. The military is quite socialist as when you enlist you're given food, housing, equipment, medical care, and other things to perform your job, but it's also part of a large capitalist system where equipment and supplies are provisioned from a (theoretically) competitive marketplace. What we need to do is find the right balance between dog-eat-dog individualism and insufferable collectivisim.

nikolay 9y ago
I disagree that the solution is a balanced one somewhere between the only two puristic and unrealistic options as in both money is key, and I disagree that it should be the centerpiece of our society as it's already proven to be a weak motivator and leads to very negative consequences. There are good things in both orders, we need to learn from them, but something in the middle we already have in EU, and it's not working so well.
- oconnore 9y ago
  You are trying so hard to escape from a fundamental truth that echoes throughout history: government, money, economy, it's all about power. You can't sidestep the issue of power by throwing technology at it: you will just create an unbalanced, poorly thought out power dynamic (that uses technology!). Technology does not mean you get to throw out your history books. On the contrary, it means you probably need them more than ever. The EU is not perfect, nor is the US, Canada, China, or anywhere else. We need to carefully analyze and experiment, not mash the reset button in the hope we get something better next time.
- astrodust 9y ago
  Everyone is in the middle because no country, no political state of any kind, has ever been, nor likely ever will be 100% capitalist or 100% socialist. Achieving such extremes is so impractical as to be impossible. The difference between the EU and America is actually pretty slight on these two scales, but tiny shifts in policy can have a huge impact on society.
nikolay 9y ago
What do you think about The Venus Project [0] and Jaque Fresco's resource-based economy [1]? Edit: I'm saddened to find out that Jacque has recently passed away. I was planning to meet him in person as he was at an honorable age. [0]: https://www.thevenusproject.com/ https://www.thevenusproject.com/ [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco

dlwdlw 9y ago

There's an interesting fat protocols article on block chain technology by usv. Unlike thin protocols like tcp/up where the value is captured by edge nodes, a fat protocol captures the bulk of the value and the edges are forced into commodity pricing. I think it would be like everyone living in and contributing to the US as an idea. The block chain of the "US" has a good social security net, good public non-profit infrastructure, ample opportunity etc... Or theoretically would/should anyway. In reality it's too prone to corruption and manipulation. If smart contracts get stable and consistent enough (and build up a correspondingly large body of contract law) we end up being able to create entities of faith, things to believe in and rely on but are also fragile in that they need faith to persist as well. "gods" if you will.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]