4 ms·

It's being downvoted because it's pushing a false narrative that it's only black people that are being incarcerated, and they're being incarcerated explicitly f

It's being downvoted because it's pushing a false narrative that it's only black people that are being incarcerated, and they're being incarcerated explicitly for cheap labor. There are major issues with regards to race in America, but real life is more nuanced than "it's happening because racism."

cavanasm 9y ago
Would "racism is a statistically significant contributing factor" be more palatable for you than "it's happening because racism"?
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Yes, actually. A nuanced discussion on a nuanced issue is much preferable to ideological squabbles.
chimeracoder 9y ago
> It's being downvoted because it's pushing a false narrative that it's only black people that are being incarcerated, Nobody is saying "only" black people are being incarcerated. They're saying that incarceration is used as a tool to perpetuate many of the same outcomes as slavery. Which is trivially verifiable, if you look at the respective incarceration rates by race. > they're being incarcerated explicitly for cheap labor Virtually all prisoners are required to work for what amounts to as little as $.10/hour. $1/hour is considered an incredibly good wage for a prison job. Prisoners are, by design, excluded from minimum wage laws. This is not limited to private prisons; it includes inmates at state-run and federal prisons too. In California, about a third of the people fighting the recent and ongoing wildfires are prisoners, generally making about $1/hour or less. The maximum they can make is $2.56. Again, this burden largely falls on black and other non-white people, because they're incarcerated at much higher rates and for much longer sentences for the same crimes.
- BearGoesChirp 9y ago
  >if you look at the respective incarceration rates by race. Yet the theory breaks down once you look at a breakdown of race, gender, and SES.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > Yet the theory breaks down once you look at a breakdown of race, gender, and SES. There's plenty of research debunking this claim, which is a myth generally propagated by groups with explicit white supremacist agendas.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > Which is trivially verifiable, if you look at the respective incarceration rates by race. This assumes that incarceration rates should be equal for all races, which probably shouldn't be the case. There's a correlation between low socioeconomic status and incarceration. Black Americans tend to have a lower socioeconomic status. Murder rates are also much higher among blacks than other races in America. > Prisoners are, by design, excluded from minimum wage laws. Right. Prisoners are being exploited, but that's not why they're being imprisoned. They're being imprisoned because of drugs, violence, and thievery/burglary for the most part.
occultist_throw 9y ago
Waitsec. So, because I didn't write a dissertation on this topic, nor did I write a longform article, it's invalid? Hardly. It's not hard to look up that google maps census dot map. And then go find prisons in Google Maps and find it on the census map. Might be pretty surprising what you see... then again, might not. Hint: https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/ https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/ Turn overlays. Go to Indianapolis, then look to the West side towards Avon and Danville. There's a dense green block (green dots = Black people) due south of Avon. Now, go look in Google Maps as to what's there. Wash, rinse and repeat all across the US. You want evidence? There's pretty telling evidence right there. Hell, I would go over the comment limit on even an abstract on this topic. We're talking 300+ years of history just in the US and colonies. No, the real reason here why I'm being downvoted is because of a popularity contest. It certainly doesn't have to do with content, at least here. But some people are considered "unpopular". So we see rapid point swings and -1's. To me, its just some of the backward-ness how this community works. Every community has something like this. Grain/block of salt, and all.
- dEnigma 9y ago
  Insulting the community won't help against the downvotes. The healthy path is to just ignore the votes and freely discuss your opinions, whether they resonate with other people or not. By that I don't mean "ignore other people", only their effect on your comment score/karma. You should listen to their arguments nonetheless.
  - occultist_throw 9y ago
    > Insulting the community won't help against the downvotes. The healthy path is to just ignore the votes and freely discuss your opinions, whether they resonate with other people or not. That's the problem with "Downvotes" in the way they're done here. Legitimate discourse, albeit unpopular will attract downvotes. And so will unrelated offtopic garbage (Spam, 1 word replies, crazy rantings ala TempleOS). The end result to both "unpopular" material and "spam" is the same - hidden. Simply put, -1s = losing right to talk and be seen. So yeah, I am pretty disappointed in the community, and I have a justifiable right to be.

cavanasm 9y ago

Would "racism is a statistically significant contributing factor" be more palatable for you than "it's happening because racism"?

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
Yes, actually. A nuanced discussion on a nuanced issue is much preferable to ideological squabbles.

chimeracoder 9y ago

> It's being downvoted because it's pushing a false narrative that it's only black people that are being incarcerated, Nobody is saying "only" black people are being incarcerated. They're saying that incarceration is used as a tool to perpetuate many of the same outcomes as slavery. Which is trivially verifiable, if you look at the respective incarceration rates by race. > they're being incarcerated explicitly for cheap labor Virtually all prisoners are required to work for what amounts to as little as $.10/hour. $1/hour is considered an incredibly good wage for a prison job. Prisoners are, by design, excluded from minimum wage laws. This is not limited to private prisons; it includes inmates at state-run and federal prisons too. In California, about a third of the people fighting the recent and ongoing wildfires are prisoners, generally making about $1/hour or less. The maximum they can make is $2.56. Again, this burden largely falls on black and other non-white people, because they're incarcerated at much higher rates and for much longer sentences for the same crimes.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago
>if you look at the respective incarceration rates by race. Yet the theory breaks down once you look at a breakdown of race, gender, and SES.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > Yet the theory breaks down once you look at a breakdown of race, gender, and SES. There's plenty of research debunking this claim, which is a myth generally propagated by groups with explicit white supremacist agendas.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> Which is trivially verifiable, if you look at the respective incarceration rates by race. This assumes that incarceration rates should be equal for all races, which probably shouldn't be the case. There's a correlation between low socioeconomic status and incarceration. Black Americans tend to have a lower socioeconomic status. Murder rates are also much higher among blacks than other races in America. > Prisoners are, by design, excluded from minimum wage laws. Right. Prisoners are being exploited, but that's not why they're being imprisoned. They're being imprisoned because of drugs, violence, and thievery/burglary for the most part.

occultist_throw 9y ago

Waitsec. So, because I didn't write a dissertation on this topic, nor did I write a longform article, it's invalid? Hardly. It's not hard to look up that google maps census dot map. And then go find prisons in Google Maps and find it on the census map. Might be pretty surprising what you see... then again, might not. Hint: https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/ https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/ Turn overlays. Go to Indianapolis, then look to the West side towards Avon and Danville. There's a dense green block (green dots = Black people) due south of Avon. Now, go look in Google Maps as to what's there. Wash, rinse and repeat all across the US. You want evidence? There's pretty telling evidence right there. Hell, I would go over the comment limit on even an abstract on this topic. We're talking 300+ years of history just in the US and colonies. No, the real reason here why I'm being downvoted is because of a popularity contest. It certainly doesn't have to do with content, at least here. But some people are considered "unpopular". So we see rapid point swings and -1's. To me, its just some of the backward-ness how this community works. Every community has something like this. Grain/block of salt, and all.

dEnigma 9y ago
Insulting the community won't help against the downvotes. The healthy path is to just ignore the votes and freely discuss your opinions, whether they resonate with other people or not. By that I don't mean "ignore other people", only their effect on your comment score/karma. You should listen to their arguments nonetheless.
- occultist_throw 9y ago
  > Insulting the community won't help against the downvotes. The healthy path is to just ignore the votes and freely discuss your opinions, whether they resonate with other people or not. That's the problem with "Downvotes" in the way they're done here. Legitimate discourse, albeit unpopular will attract downvotes. And so will unrelated offtopic garbage (Spam, 1 word replies, crazy rantings ala TempleOS). The end result to both "unpopular" material and "spam" is the same - hidden. Simply put, -1s = losing right to talk and be seen. So yeah, I am pretty disappointed in the community, and I have a justifiable right to be.