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Legally, possibly, but ethically and from the position of most consumers? No. Google (and many other web services) do all sorts of tracking, even if you aren't

Legally, possibly, but ethically and from the position of most consumers? No. Google (and many other web services) do all sorts of tracking, even if you aren't using their services directly, particularly with Web ads, tracking via social integration buttons, etc, which I would argue is much less than consensual. This can even happen without their having to agree to having a Google account, let alone reading (and understanding the legalese in) their privacy policy (and all of its implications for what they can do with their data). I highly doubt the vast majority of Internet users know how much information and value is being extracted by private companies from their just being on the web.

bb88 9y ago
> but ethically and from the position of most consumers? No. I once had a friend frequent this record store, because every time he walked in the store, the owner would tell him, "You need to listen to this." And my friend would walk out of the store with a fresh vinyl pressed record with songs that he would spend hours listening to. Was my friend be tracked? Yes. Did he experience targeted advertising? Yes. Was he subjected to unethical or immoral behavior? I don't know, but he kept coming back. If you are the one opening up the browser and going to websites that do such unsavory things, such as trying to understand their customers to provide better content, then isn't the onus on you to not visit those sites?
- bb88 9y ago
  I love how this ended up with a down vote. Sometimes speaking a painful truth is painful.
  - netword 9y ago
    > then isn't the onus on you to not visit those sites? Not what the discussion was about. The question was which business model was more 'honest'. And I'm not sure you can fairly say that bulk data collection across most parts of the Web which most people are unaware of, is an honest way of conducting business (Not to mention shit like [1] and [2]). [1] https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/09/yes-google-uses-its-power-to-quash-ideas-it-doesnt-likei-know-because-it-happened-to-me/ https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/09/yes-google-uses-its-power... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-google-new-america.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-...
    - bb88 9y ago
      And my argument is that content and advertising and consumer tracking has been accepted behavior by corporations for a long time now. You may not like it, may think it's kind of "Nazi"-ish. But it's been a valid business model for decades. But if you feel Apple's business model is truly more honest, here's a wikipedia page you should go read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc.

bb88 9y ago

> but ethically and from the position of most consumers? No. I once had a friend frequent this record store, because every time he walked in the store, the owner would tell him, "You need to listen to this." And my friend would walk out of the store with a fresh vinyl pressed record with songs that he would spend hours listening to. Was my friend be tracked? Yes. Did he experience targeted advertising? Yes. Was he subjected to unethical or immoral behavior? I don't know, but he kept coming back. If you are the one opening up the browser and going to websites that do such unsavory things, such as trying to understand their customers to provide better content, then isn't the onus on you to not visit those sites?

bb88 9y ago
I love how this ended up with a down vote. Sometimes speaking a painful truth is painful.
- netword 9y ago
  > then isn't the onus on you to not visit those sites? Not what the discussion was about. The question was which business model was more 'honest'. And I'm not sure you can fairly say that bulk data collection across most parts of the Web which most people are unaware of, is an honest way of conducting business (Not to mention shit like [1] and [2]). [1] https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/09/yes-google-uses-its-power-to-quash-ideas-it-doesnt-likei-know-because-it-happened-to-me/ https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/09/yes-google-uses-its-power... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-google-new-america.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-...
  - bb88 9y ago
    And my argument is that content and advertising and consumer tracking has been accepted behavior by corporations for a long time now. You may not like it, may think it's kind of "Nazi"-ish. But it's been a valid business model for decades. But if you feel Apple's business model is truly more honest, here's a wikipedia page you should go read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc.