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> Wired fundamentally does not understand how crappy CIs can be Just curious, can you explain what you mean by CIs being crappy, or point to an existing explan

> Wired fundamentally does not understand how crappy CIs can be Just curious, can you explain what you mean by CIs being crappy, or point to an existing explanation?

hprotagonist 9y ago
Briefly, you get 16 frequency bands if you’re lucky. A healthy ear has about 3,000. It’s more complicated than that, but in a nutshell, the fidelity with which CIs can represent the world is very limited. They work for speech, mostly, in quiet. There are simulations of what they sound like on YouTube, somewhat.
- Kluny 9y ago
  "Crappy" is one way of putting it. Those 16 frequencies, for me, are the difference between a life worth living, and a life in crippling, hopeless isolation, ended by suicide at an early age.
  - akvadrako 9y ago
    Hum... I'm pretty sure my life wouldn't be much different if I could only communicate non-verbally.
  - hprotagonist 9y ago
    just to be clear: i’m not knocking their utility! many normal-hearing people just seem to believe that CIs are bionic ears with perfect performance, though, and that’s manifestly false. the CI users know are glad to have them, and they are, as you say, a lifeline for many. i’m glad my research ultimately contributes to better ones. we just have a long way to go.
- LX8DvZFL 9y ago
  This needs to be more widely known. You'd think from reading marketing material that you would be listening to Mozart and jazz the week after implantation. The reality is that you have basically no pitch perception. 16 frequency bands across, say, the four octaves that music is interesting? You're lucky to discriminate half-octaves let alone semitones. Temporal aspects of music come through alright. I suppose you could be a drummer.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  You would be surprised. Closer to 100 or 200 bands actually, overlapping. There is a plenty of redundancy. The number cited is about the number of neurons.
  - hprotagonist 9y ago
    I am not sure I agree with you. Given that you get ~16 electrodes, and some greenwood-like frequency-place map along the basilar membrane, and given that the place specificity of stimulation from those electrodes is significantly larger than the width of an inner hair cell, I'm not really seeing "200 bands".

> Wired fundamentally does not understand how crappy CIs can be Just curious, can you explain what you mean by CIs being crappy, or point to an existing explanation?

hprotagonist 9y ago

Briefly, you get 16 frequency bands if you’re lucky. A healthy ear has about 3,000. It’s more complicated than that, but in a nutshell, the fidelity with which CIs can represent the world is very limited. They work for speech, mostly, in quiet. There are simulations of what they sound like on YouTube, somewhat.

Kluny 9y ago
"Crappy" is one way of putting it. Those 16 frequencies, for me, are the difference between a life worth living, and a life in crippling, hopeless isolation, ended by suicide at an early age.
- akvadrako 9y ago
  Hum... I'm pretty sure my life wouldn't be much different if I could only communicate non-verbally.
- hprotagonist 9y ago
  just to be clear: i’m not knocking their utility! many normal-hearing people just seem to believe that CIs are bionic ears with perfect performance, though, and that’s manifestly false. the CI users know are glad to have them, and they are, as you say, a lifeline for many. i’m glad my research ultimately contributes to better ones. we just have a long way to go.
LX8DvZFL 9y ago
This needs to be more widely known. You'd think from reading marketing material that you would be listening to Mozart and jazz the week after implantation. The reality is that you have basically no pitch perception. 16 frequency bands across, say, the four octaves that music is interesting? You're lucky to discriminate half-octaves let alone semitones. Temporal aspects of music come through alright. I suppose you could be a drummer.
AstralStorm 9y ago
You would be surprised. Closer to 100 or 200 bands actually, overlapping. There is a plenty of redundancy. The number cited is about the number of neurons.
- hprotagonist 9y ago
  I am not sure I agree with you. Given that you get ~16 electrodes, and some greenwood-like frequency-place map along the basilar membrane, and given that the place specificity of stimulation from those electrodes is significantly larger than the width of an inner hair cell, I'm not really seeing "200 bands".