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Is it worthwhile to work there for a few years as a 20-year old though? I'm thinking it's a unique experience even if monetarily it's a poor choice.

by chis 9y ago

vasilipupkin 9y ago
You should go where the opportunities are. Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more
- cat199 9y ago
  > You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more Unless this is an unrealistic aim, in which case you are throwing your future away on a false hope..
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    well, aren't we being a little melodramatic? if you get a decent job in the bay area and your rent is high, you aren't really "throwing your future away" even if your career doesn't take off.
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  > Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more This flies in the face of basic economic theory. If everyone in the bay area "made so much that rent doesn't matter anymore" the rent would go up until it did matter. The reason it doesn't is that quantity demanded goes down as rent goes up precisely because people are price conscious.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    what does this have to do with everyone in the bay area? this is hacker news and I am responding to a specific comment by a person that, in the context of the conversation, is in tech industry or is planning to be. "everyone in the bay area" includes your local barista. downvoters: "If everyone in the bay area "made so much that rent doesn't matter anymore" the rent would go up until it did matter" is a red herring. we are not discussing everyone in the bay area. We are discussing specific types of people that are trying to maximize their career outcomes in the tech industry.
ng12 9y ago
Yes. I met more talented developers in a few years working in the Bay than I did in twice that time living in the Northeast. All other problems aside Silicon Valley still does have the highest concentration of top talent. My advice: live there for a few years as cheaply as possible, work at 2+ companies, learn everything you can, then get out of dodge.
maxxxxx 9y ago
It's definitely good for your resume.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  There are lots of places good for your resume that aren't a drain on your bank account.
  - robbrit 9y ago
    For someone who is young, can move around, and doesn't burn loads of money on silly expenses, the Bay Area is actually amazing for the bank account. My experience here has been that the gap between income and expenses is greater than gross salary in many cities. Work a few years, invest the difference, and then ship out when you want to settle down is a very reasonable strategy.
ghaff 9y ago
Maybe? A lot of people convince themselves that pretty much every place else is a backwater not worthy of their skills. There are certainly more options in the Bay Area for a certain subset of tech. And maybe certain big companies that offer Unique opportunities (although for a smaller subset of hires than used to be the case). But there are plenty of good opportunities in other areas as well.
TaylorAlexander 9y ago
Yes, I think it’s a great place to be for a while at least. I’m 33, have been here over ten years (grew up nearby) and am still chugging along. The mindless commute through unending traffic to get to the same office day in and day out is slowly driving me a little mad (not really... I think) but I’m beginning to question if I want to stay here long term. Still, I’ve had amazing experiences here and this is a place of magic in many ways. It’s defi worth experiencing in my opinion.
- j_s 9y ago
  If you think ideas for commute audio might help at least in the short term, check out the most recent edition of what has become a bi-monthly discussion: Ask HN: What audio resources can improve my technical skills during my commute? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15170121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15170121 (Sep 2017, 93 comments)
- johnbrodie 9y ago
  Cali is the only US state where lane splitting is legal. How many people with a long commute are riding motorcycles to work every day? The weather is great for it. Were I in the bay area, I'd be riding in every day. If not for the love of motorcycles, just to shorten my commute times.
  - reducesuffering 9y ago
    I work in Silicon Valley but live in Fremont in the East Bay. Traffic is awful, would take an hour by car, and no one at my work lives that far. But on a motorcycle? A fun 30 min ride in the midst of traffic.
  - linkregister 9y ago
    I found my stress level keeping me from riding. It’s exhausting avoiding being killed by drivers who can’t see me or intentionally run me out of my lane.
shawnee_ 9y ago
Not anymore it isn't; this goes 100X for women. Women being paid less means they are forced to live in the crappier parts of towns: the squalor, the commute and the danger are significantly more. When that movie "the Social Network" came out is about when I noticed it changed. It became literally overrun with sleazy easy-money landlords, big corporate entities buying up the apartments, jacking the rents, etc. There are thousands of better cities than any one in SF bay area. Technology works anywhere, you can work anywhere. My quality of life improved 1000 percent when I left California. [edit] I'm not quite sure why it's so hard for readers to fathom that women being paid significantly less than their male peers would be a key factor affecting what is "affordable" to them, and thus their ability to live safely in the Bay area. The question I was responding to was: "Is it worth it?" and my advice is that it is not. It is especially not worth it for women. Why would it be worth putting yourself in danger where all you can afford is the worst apartment in the worst neighborhood, 70-125 minutes away (each direction) from your workplace? The golden era of opportunity in Silicon Valley has passed. The real estate factor is now baked too deeply into every facet of life there. And as long as the AirBnb model ensures that only the landlords thrive, the problem will always be bigger than the solution.
- obstacle1 9y ago
  >this goes 100X for women. Using obviously ridiculous hyperbole like this is going to do the opposite of helping to solve your pet problem, FYI. Consider other strategies for advocacy.
  - shawnee_ 9y ago
    What makes you think it's hyperbole? It's not hyperbole; it was my experience, as a female attempting to make a living while working in technology, living there.
    - obstacle1 9y ago
      It's _one hundred_ times more difficult for women? No. That's hyperbole. It's more difficult for women? Reasonable, if debatable. But not _one hundred times_ in any possible case. That's just an exaggeration aimed at derailing an argument into the realm of emotion.
abritinthebay 9y ago
Depends where, for who, and doing what. Working in a big city at a variety of companies and roles is always a good thing for experience and personal growth.
zerr 9y ago
If you're after investors' money then probably yes, as they say, but for the engineer, there is nothing special.
- wils1245 9y ago
  Not sure what you mean. There’s a whole lot of investor money flowing into engineers’ pockets here in the bay.
acchow 9y ago
Absolutely. Yes. Do this.

Is it worthwhile to work there for a few years as a 20-year old though? I'm thinking it's a unique experience even if monetarily it's a poor choice.

by chis 9y ago

Is it worthwhile to work there for a few years as a 20-year old though? I'm thinking it's a unique experience even if monetarily it's a poor choice.

vasilipupkin 9y ago

You should go where the opportunities are. Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more

cat199 9y ago
> You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more Unless this is an unrealistic aim, in which case you are throwing your future away on a false hope..
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  well, aren't we being a little melodramatic? if you get a decent job in the bay area and your rent is high, you aren't really "throwing your future away" even if your career doesn't take off.
AlexandrB 9y ago
> Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more This flies in the face of basic economic theory. If everyone in the bay area "made so much that rent doesn't matter anymore" the rent would go up until it did matter. The reason it doesn't is that quantity demanded goes down as rent goes up precisely because people are price conscious.
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  what does this have to do with everyone in the bay area? this is hacker news and I am responding to a specific comment by a person that, in the context of the conversation, is in tech industry or is planning to be. "everyone in the bay area" includes your local barista. downvoters: "If everyone in the bay area "made so much that rent doesn't matter anymore" the rent would go up until it did matter" is a red herring. we are not discussing everyone in the bay area. We are discussing specific types of people that are trying to maximize their career outcomes in the tech industry.

ng12 9y ago

Yes. I met more talented developers in a few years working in the Bay than I did in twice that time living in the Northeast. All other problems aside Silicon Valley still does have the highest concentration of top talent. My advice: live there for a few years as cheaply as possible, work at 2+ companies, learn everything you can, then get out of dodge.

maxxxxx 9y ago

It's definitely good for your resume.

humanrebar 9y ago
There are lots of places good for your resume that aren't a drain on your bank account.
- robbrit 9y ago
  For someone who is young, can move around, and doesn't burn loads of money on silly expenses, the Bay Area is actually amazing for the bank account. My experience here has been that the gap between income and expenses is greater than gross salary in many cities. Work a few years, invest the difference, and then ship out when you want to settle down is a very reasonable strategy.

ghaff 9y ago

Maybe? A lot of people convince themselves that pretty much every place else is a backwater not worthy of their skills. There are certainly more options in the Bay Area for a certain subset of tech. And maybe certain big companies that offer Unique opportunities (although for a smaller subset of hires than used to be the case). But there are plenty of good opportunities in other areas as well.

TaylorAlexander 9y ago

Yes, I think it’s a great place to be for a while at least. I’m 33, have been here over ten years (grew up nearby) and am still chugging along. The mindless commute through unending traffic to get to the same office day in and day out is slowly driving me a little mad (not really... I think) but I’m beginning to question if I want to stay here long term. Still, I’ve had amazing experiences here and this is a place of magic in many ways. It’s defi worth experiencing in my opinion.

j_s 9y ago
If you think ideas for commute audio might help at least in the short term, check out the most recent edition of what has become a bi-monthly discussion: Ask HN: What audio resources can improve my technical skills during my commute? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15170121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15170121 (Sep 2017, 93 comments)
johnbrodie 9y ago
Cali is the only US state where lane splitting is legal. How many people with a long commute are riding motorcycles to work every day? The weather is great for it. Were I in the bay area, I'd be riding in every day. If not for the love of motorcycles, just to shorten my commute times.
- reducesuffering 9y ago
  I work in Silicon Valley but live in Fremont in the East Bay. Traffic is awful, would take an hour by car, and no one at my work lives that far. But on a motorcycle? A fun 30 min ride in the midst of traffic.
- linkregister 9y ago
  I found my stress level keeping me from riding. It’s exhausting avoiding being killed by drivers who can’t see me or intentionally run me out of my lane.

shawnee_ 9y ago

Not anymore it isn't; this goes 100X for women. Women being paid less means they are forced to live in the crappier parts of towns: the squalor, the commute and the danger are significantly more. When that movie "the Social Network" came out is about when I noticed it changed. It became literally overrun with sleazy easy-money landlords, big corporate entities buying up the apartments, jacking the rents, etc. There are thousands of better cities than any one in SF bay area. Technology works anywhere, you can work anywhere. My quality of life improved 1000 percent when I left California. [edit] I'm not quite sure why it's so hard for readers to fathom that women being paid significantly less than their male peers would be a key factor affecting what is "affordable" to them, and thus their ability to live safely in the Bay area. The question I was responding to was: "Is it worth it?" and my advice is that it is not. It is especially not worth it for women. Why would it be worth putting yourself in danger where all you can afford is the worst apartment in the worst neighborhood, 70-125 minutes away (each direction) from your workplace? The golden era of opportunity in Silicon Valley has passed. The real estate factor is now baked too deeply into every facet of life there. And as long as the AirBnb model ensures that only the landlords thrive, the problem will always be bigger than the solution.

obstacle1 9y ago
>this goes 100X for women. Using obviously ridiculous hyperbole like this is going to do the opposite of helping to solve your pet problem, FYI. Consider other strategies for advocacy.
- shawnee_ 9y ago
  What makes you think it's hyperbole? It's not hyperbole; it was my experience, as a female attempting to make a living while working in technology, living there.
  - obstacle1 9y ago
    It's _one hundred_ times more difficult for women? No. That's hyperbole. It's more difficult for women? Reasonable, if debatable. But not _one hundred times_ in any possible case. That's just an exaggeration aimed at derailing an argument into the realm of emotion.

abritinthebay 9y ago

Depends where, for who, and doing what. Working in a big city at a variety of companies and roles is always a good thing for experience and personal growth.

zerr 9y ago

If you're after investors' money then probably yes, as they say, but for the engineer, there is nothing special.

wils1245 9y ago
Not sure what you mean. There’s a whole lot of investor money flowing into engineers’ pockets here in the bay.

acchow 9y ago

Absolutely. Yes. Do this.