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I still haven't seen any clear evidence of this supposed fall. Everything that people point out is things that Jobs did too before he died. People just have a t

by audunw 9y ago

I still haven't seen any clear evidence of this supposed fall. Everything that people point out is things that Jobs did too before he died. People just have a tendency to forget the warts, and remember all the successes. Even people who are critical of Apple. It's a human bias we all have.. we simplify memories to make them simpler to process. People always bring up the Magic Mouse 2 for instance. I think it's mainly a misunderstood design. But anyway: do people really think Jobs would have compromised the visual design of the mouse to put a charging port on the front of the mouse, all just to facilitate the 0.1% of time that someone needs to use the mouse while charging it? Have people completely forgotten about the hockey puck mouse, a design where Jobs was willing to give people carpal tunnel syndrome just to have it be totally round and cool looking? You mention iCloud.. Do you remember MobileMe? A service that failed so spectacularly, under Jobs, that they just scrapped the whole thing and replaced it with iCloud?

FussyZeus 9y ago
Jobs wasn't infallible, but the fact is even if the Hockey Puck mouse was a weird design, it also worked, which is something that Apple has struggled recently to manage with their entire product line. Jobs also was actively against having multiple phones, specifically because of the confusion it causes in the customer. Apple now sells the SE, the 6s, the 6s Plus, the 7, the 7 Plus, the 8, the 8 Plus, and the X will be available soon. Jobs would've never allowed that, the SE would probably stay because it's a different size, but then it would be the 8, and the X and that's it. Software quality especially, iCloud especially especially, has become abysmal. We're up to 11.0.3 now for patch releases, 3 patch releases after a major OS update is unheard of for Apple. And all of those issues isn't even getting into the Mac line which has been brutalized under Cook. I don't hate Cook, he's a fantastic businessman, but he has no vision whatsoever.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  > We're up to 11.0.3 now for patch releases, 3 patch releases after a major OS update is unheard of for Apple. That’s some revisionist history there! That couldn’t be further from the truth! First let’s take the obvious contradiction and look at iOS7. There was 7.0.3, 7.0.4, 7.0.5, heck, even 7.0.6! Pretty much every major release had a X.0.2, so an X.0.3 is not that crazy. While not a “major OS update” technically, the iOS 4.2 release got patched all the way up to 4.2.10. 10 patch releases, surely that’s when we should’ve said the end was nigh? While 7.0.X and 4.2.X saw a large number of patch releases, all X.0 and pretty much all X.Y releases had a few patch releases so iOS11 is not an outlier in any way so far. In reality, bugs will always exist, no matter how good the QA or engineering discipline. Personally, I’d rather see them fix early and often, as long as the patch release doesn’t introduce worse behavior.
  - FussyZeus 9y ago
    That's true, I had forgotten the trainwreck that was iOS 7. I still have scars from trying to learn Autolayout back then. As to 4.2, that was before my time. Not an excuse, just an explanation.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      It’s easy to dismiss iOS 7 has a particularly bad case, but based on the list below it seems you might have a selective memory (no offense, just trying to help fix it)... 10.3.3 10.0.3 9.3.5 9.0.2 8.1.3 8.0.2 7.1.2 7.0.6 6.1.6 6.0.2 As you can see, going back to 6.x days, being at a X.Y.2 or higher patch release is really not that uncommon.
- scarface74 9y ago
  Apple sold three generation of phones during the Jobs era. The carriers sold them On contract at $200 $100, and "free". Along the same line, the 8, 7, and 6 are the same three generation of phones that Apple sold under the jobs era. The only difference is that the market demanded larger phones but still some people like really small phones (the SE), what are now considered regular size phones (6s,7, and 8) and their "phablet" equivalents. Also, Jobs was also well aware of the "price umbrella". They are able to get in the midrange market with the perfectly capable 6s line. And don't forget, under Jobs, they went from one model iPod to four - the shuffle, the Nano, the "classic" and the Touch.

by audunw 9y ago

FussyZeus 9y ago

Jobs wasn't infallible, but the fact is even if the Hockey Puck mouse was a weird design, it also worked, which is something that Apple has struggled recently to manage with their entire product line. Jobs also was actively against having multiple phones, specifically because of the confusion it causes in the customer. Apple now sells the SE, the 6s, the 6s Plus, the 7, the 7 Plus, the 8, the 8 Plus, and the X will be available soon. Jobs would've never allowed that, the SE would probably stay because it's a different size, but then it would be the 8, and the X and that's it. Software quality especially, iCloud especially especially, has become abysmal. We're up to 11.0.3 now for patch releases, 3 patch releases after a major OS update is unheard of for Apple. And all of those issues isn't even getting into the Mac line which has been brutalized under Cook. I don't hate Cook, he's a fantastic businessman, but he has no vision whatsoever.

jsjohnst 9y ago
> We're up to 11.0.3 now for patch releases, 3 patch releases after a major OS update is unheard of for Apple. That’s some revisionist history there! That couldn’t be further from the truth! First let’s take the obvious contradiction and look at iOS7. There was 7.0.3, 7.0.4, 7.0.5, heck, even 7.0.6! Pretty much every major release had a X.0.2, so an X.0.3 is not that crazy. While not a “major OS update” technically, the iOS 4.2 release got patched all the way up to 4.2.10. 10 patch releases, surely that’s when we should’ve said the end was nigh? While 7.0.X and 4.2.X saw a large number of patch releases, all X.0 and pretty much all X.Y releases had a few patch releases so iOS11 is not an outlier in any way so far. In reality, bugs will always exist, no matter how good the QA or engineering discipline. Personally, I’d rather see them fix early and often, as long as the patch release doesn’t introduce worse behavior.
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  That's true, I had forgotten the trainwreck that was iOS 7. I still have scars from trying to learn Autolayout back then. As to 4.2, that was before my time. Not an excuse, just an explanation.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    It’s easy to dismiss iOS 7 has a particularly bad case, but based on the list below it seems you might have a selective memory (no offense, just trying to help fix it)... 10.3.3 10.0.3 9.3.5 9.0.2 8.1.3 8.0.2 7.1.2 7.0.6 6.1.6 6.0.2 As you can see, going back to 6.x days, being at a X.Y.2 or higher patch release is really not that uncommon.
scarface74 9y ago
Apple sold three generation of phones during the Jobs era. The carriers sold them On contract at $200 $100, and "free". Along the same line, the 8, 7, and 6 are the same three generation of phones that Apple sold under the jobs era. The only difference is that the market demanded larger phones but still some people like really small phones (the SE), what are now considered regular size phones (6s,7, and 8) and their "phablet" equivalents. Also, Jobs was also well aware of the "price umbrella". They are able to get in the midrange market with the perfectly capable 6s line. And don't forget, under Jobs, they went from one model iPod to four - the shuffle, the Nano, the "classic" and the Touch.