4 ms·

If only it were so simple. It is that simple when you are, say, running an endurance race. Abide "don't quit" and you will finish. But in real life, you're p

If only it were so simple. It is that simple when you are, say, running an endurance race. Abide "don't quit" and you will finish. But in real life, you're presented with a continual stream of alternative opportunities. And these days "I quit" has subtly morphed into "I pivot."

zimpenfish 9y ago
> It is that simple when you are, say, running an endurance race. It isn't. If things are starting to cause pain, or bleed, or you're vomiting, or ... there are many sensible reasons to cut short or abandon an endurance race. > Abide "don't quit" and you will finish. Or do yourself damage that will take months to recover from.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  As a personal anecdote, I cut short a 24h race this summer at 17h because, even though it was ~20degC, I spent an entire lap shivering even though I had t-shirt + thick hoody + hat. That was a pretty big warning that I'd pushed too far and further would have laid me out.
  - dogruck 9y ago
    There's no shame in stopping. Sounds like you were hypothermic, which is a common reason for DNFs. From my experience, I would say that you wouldn't have been able to continue even if you needed to. Also, always beware of the spectrum. Some people would say running for 17 hours is impossible. Others would say they shivered uncontrollably at 17 hours and roughed out 3 more hours before dropping. Others still would hit 24 hours and wish they could keep going.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      > There's no shame in stopping. Oh, I know. I was there primarily to support a 100-miler anyway which made the decision a lot easier. > I would say that you wouldn't have been able to continue even if you needed to. Yeah, I spent the next couple of hours just slumped under a table trying to get warm and eat food.
      - dogruck 9y ago
        That's awesome. I hope it's clear that I'm not hating. I'm sure you'll always have great memories of that day, and hopefully of similar days in the future. Life's good out there.
      - dogruck 9y ago
        Excellent motivational speech -- skip to the 6 minute mark: https://youtu.be/b3q0dvwEmsQ https://youtu.be/b3q0dvwEmsQ
        doodpants 9y ago
        I think you linked to the wrong video; it's only 53 seconds long.
        dogruck 9y ago
        Oops -- this one: https://youtu.be/3cZlvRnBnWs https://youtu.be/3cZlvRnBnWs
  - bbarn 9y ago
    I've raced bikes since I was a kid. I meet a ton of the "finish at all costs" people in endurance racing, but in anything from a criterium, to a 24h mtb race, the minute I'm not either A. doing well enough to place well or B. having fun, I pull out of the race.
- dogruck 9y ago
  Do you have any data to support your claim? My view is that if you start a race healthy, then you are unlikely to do permanent damage to your body during the race. The exceptions are primarily in the category of: "I need to immediately be taken to the ER." Also, most finishers of a 100 mile race experience pain and vomiting. But each runner has her own experience and there are no hard rules. (I have run several 100 mile trail races -- about 2 per year -- over the past 10 years)
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > then you are unlikely to do permanent damage Note that I didn't say "permanent damage" but "damage that will take months to recover from". And this is largely from participating in two communities of "extreme" endurance runners (and running with them but not to the same level) who recount their experiences and advice. It's good that you haven't had any issues but generalising to the wider world is a tricky thing - I know enough people who have attempted 100 milers (even just in 2017) and done damage that took months to recover from to know that it happens.
    - dogruck 9y ago
      Without a doubt, 100 miles is a monumental endeavor. The safest way to avoid needing a multi month recovery would be to work the aide station instead of running the race. On the other hand, much of the transcendental impact of the race comes from pushing yourself well beyond preconceived limits.
      - zimpenfish 9y ago
        > Without a doubt, 100 miles is a monumental endeavor Well, I'll find out in March. Assuming I don't knacker myself first. (Although it is somewhat overshadowed by the people I hang around with - one of them is currently on something like his 250th marathon in a rolling calendar year, one has done 800 under 3:30, and most of them do 10x10s as a matter of course.)
        9y ago

zimpenfish 9y ago

> It is that simple when you are, say, running an endurance race. It isn't. If things are starting to cause pain, or bleed, or you're vomiting, or ... there are many sensible reasons to cut short or abandon an endurance race. > Abide "don't quit" and you will finish. Or do yourself damage that will take months to recover from.

zimpenfish 9y ago
As a personal anecdote, I cut short a 24h race this summer at 17h because, even though it was ~20degC, I spent an entire lap shivering even though I had t-shirt + thick hoody + hat. That was a pretty big warning that I'd pushed too far and further would have laid me out.
- dogruck 9y ago
  There's no shame in stopping. Sounds like you were hypothermic, which is a common reason for DNFs. From my experience, I would say that you wouldn't have been able to continue even if you needed to. Also, always beware of the spectrum. Some people would say running for 17 hours is impossible. Others would say they shivered uncontrollably at 17 hours and roughed out 3 more hours before dropping. Others still would hit 24 hours and wish they could keep going.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > There's no shame in stopping. Oh, I know. I was there primarily to support a 100-miler anyway which made the decision a lot easier. > I would say that you wouldn't have been able to continue even if you needed to. Yeah, I spent the next couple of hours just slumped under a table trying to get warm and eat food.
    - dogruck 9y ago
      That's awesome. I hope it's clear that I'm not hating. I'm sure you'll always have great memories of that day, and hopefully of similar days in the future. Life's good out there.
    - dogruck 9y ago
      Excellent motivational speech -- skip to the 6 minute mark: https://youtu.be/b3q0dvwEmsQ https://youtu.be/b3q0dvwEmsQ
      - doodpants 9y ago
        I think you linked to the wrong video; it's only 53 seconds long.
        dogruck 9y ago
        Oops -- this one: https://youtu.be/3cZlvRnBnWs https://youtu.be/3cZlvRnBnWs
- bbarn 9y ago
  I've raced bikes since I was a kid. I meet a ton of the "finish at all costs" people in endurance racing, but in anything from a criterium, to a 24h mtb race, the minute I'm not either A. doing well enough to place well or B. having fun, I pull out of the race.
dogruck 9y ago
Do you have any data to support your claim? My view is that if you start a race healthy, then you are unlikely to do permanent damage to your body during the race. The exceptions are primarily in the category of: "I need to immediately be taken to the ER." Also, most finishers of a 100 mile race experience pain and vomiting. But each runner has her own experience and there are no hard rules. (I have run several 100 mile trail races -- about 2 per year -- over the past 10 years)
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > then you are unlikely to do permanent damage Note that I didn't say "permanent damage" but "damage that will take months to recover from". And this is largely from participating in two communities of "extreme" endurance runners (and running with them but not to the same level) who recount their experiences and advice. It's good that you haven't had any issues but generalising to the wider world is a tricky thing - I know enough people who have attempted 100 milers (even just in 2017) and done damage that took months to recover from to know that it happens.
  - dogruck 9y ago
    Without a doubt, 100 miles is a monumental endeavor. The safest way to avoid needing a multi month recovery would be to work the aide station instead of running the race. On the other hand, much of the transcendental impact of the race comes from pushing yourself well beyond preconceived limits.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      > Without a doubt, 100 miles is a monumental endeavor Well, I'll find out in March. Assuming I don't knacker myself first. (Although it is somewhat overshadowed by the people I hang around with - one of them is currently on something like his 250th marathon in a rolling calendar year, one has done 800 under 3:30, and most of them do 10x10s as a matter of course.)
      - 9y ago