6 ms·

This is dead on target. It's also why I found the TV series _Angel_ (the _Buffy_ spin-off) so unsatisfying. There is a truly fascinating story to be told about

This is dead on target. It's also why I found the TV series _Angel_ (the _Buffy_ spin-off) so unsatisfying. There is a truly fascinating story to be told about a vampire whose soul has been restored to him, and who is always at war with his own evil nature. But _Angel_ is not it. Instead, the eponymous character is essentially entirely good except when some supernatural agency transforms him back into Angelus, his evil form. All the conflict is externalised. That's a particularly surprising and disappointing mis-step given _Angel_'s provenance. Joss Whedon is exactly the kind of person who I'd have expected to be interested in exploring the _inherent_ contradictions within the Angel character, and showing how they are analogous to the questions that we all face.

jacobush 9y ago
Thanks - I just thought of Angel, the series "boring". I think that is why. (And Buffy, the series, excellent, btw.)
- MikeTaylor 9y ago
  Agreed that Buffy does this, like so much else, just right. It's why I had such high hopes of Angel.
morganvachon 9y ago
I think a modern fictional character that would come closer to the Jekyll-and-Hyde relationship as espoused in the parent article is the CW show Arrow. Oliver Queen is a harmless playboy in the public view (and in the last season, the mayor of his city), but he puts on the hood and does things, sometimes unspeakable things like torture and murder, in order to achieve his greater goal of "saving his city" from crime while leaving his public persona untarnished. He struggles with the notion that perhaps the Green Arrow persona is his true nature rather than the one he presents to the public. Of course, that character assessment essentially apes Batman/Bruce Wayne as well; Batman is Hyde, Bruce is Jekyll, but Hyde and Jekyll are the same person with the same drives and impulses.
- MikeTaylor 9y ago
  Thanks for the tip -- I'll try Arrow.
  - jacobush 9y ago
    Dunno why watching one or two episodes of Arrow almost killed me with boredom?
    - morganvachon 9y ago
      It's a struggle sometimes, and I wonder if it's down to who is writing and/or directing a specific episode. There was an episode last season that dealt with gun control in a 80s style "very special episode" way. It was clumsy, awkward, and did very little for the overall story arc. Overall though, it's a good show with a darker theme than most current superhero fare. Though, I may be biased as the Green Arrow was my favorite comic book character as a kid.
- hawkice 9y ago
  The real issue with Batman as a lens into this conflict is that Batman only seems controversial. He has bad PR in Gotham, but nothing he does is really bad. Punch an attempted rapist? They might have to send you to jail but no one is booing you. If Arrow has the main character murder and torture, that's a real exploration of hidden darkness. Color me interested.
V-2 9y ago
Much better in this aspect is Fargo season 3, where Varga character - played brilliantly by David Thewlis - is sort of a Mr. Hyde to the protagonist's (Emmit Stussy) Jekyll - in my interpration.
Sharlin 9y ago
Interestingly, I feel that the character of Angel/Angelus, with his entirely black/white toggle-switch morality, is actually just acting as a foil to all of the other characters, almost becoming a supporting character in his own show! I don't think this is accidental either.
aninhumer 9y ago
I don't see that as a failing, because I don't think that's what Angel's character arc was ever trying to do. His character arc is about guilt. Besides, if you want a vampire character at war with his own evil nature, surely that's basically Spike's arc?
bitcrusher 9y ago
I think the story that WAS told was just as interesting... Angel isn't about the duality of his nature. That was a character device to actually explore Redemption. I think the show did very well at exploring that issue. Angel goes through several phases of trying to cope with what it means to be redeemed... At first, his hardline do gooder stance, where it was never acceptable to "do wrong", which, given his profession actually ended up doing more harm than good. The story continued with him having to deal with "walking the line" and ultimately, allowing others to ALSO redeem themselves, through their own journey, accepting that the path to redemption was as unique as the person who was seeking it. In a lot of ways, I actually found Angel to be much deeper than Buffy, especially as Buffy progressed through later seasons. The shows were definitely dealing with two entirely different aspects of human nature, so it is difficult to compare them fairly.

jacobush 9y ago

Thanks - I just thought of Angel, the series "boring". I think that is why. (And Buffy, the series, excellent, btw.)

MikeTaylor 9y ago
Agreed that Buffy does this, like so much else, just right. It's why I had such high hopes of Angel.

morganvachon 9y ago

I think a modern fictional character that would come closer to the Jekyll-and-Hyde relationship as espoused in the parent article is the CW show Arrow. Oliver Queen is a harmless playboy in the public view (and in the last season, the mayor of his city), but he puts on the hood and does things, sometimes unspeakable things like torture and murder, in order to achieve his greater goal of "saving his city" from crime while leaving his public persona untarnished. He struggles with the notion that perhaps the Green Arrow persona is his true nature rather than the one he presents to the public. Of course, that character assessment essentially apes Batman/Bruce Wayne as well; Batman is Hyde, Bruce is Jekyll, but Hyde and Jekyll are the same person with the same drives and impulses.

MikeTaylor 9y ago
Thanks for the tip -- I'll try Arrow.
- jacobush 9y ago
  Dunno why watching one or two episodes of Arrow almost killed me with boredom?
  - morganvachon 9y ago
    It's a struggle sometimes, and I wonder if it's down to who is writing and/or directing a specific episode. There was an episode last season that dealt with gun control in a 80s style "very special episode" way. It was clumsy, awkward, and did very little for the overall story arc. Overall though, it's a good show with a darker theme than most current superhero fare. Though, I may be biased as the Green Arrow was my favorite comic book character as a kid.
hawkice 9y ago
The real issue with Batman as a lens into this conflict is that Batman only seems controversial. He has bad PR in Gotham, but nothing he does is really bad. Punch an attempted rapist? They might have to send you to jail but no one is booing you. If Arrow has the main character murder and torture, that's a real exploration of hidden darkness. Color me interested.

V-2 9y ago

Much better in this aspect is Fargo season 3, where Varga character - played brilliantly by David Thewlis - is sort of a Mr. Hyde to the protagonist's (Emmit Stussy) Jekyll - in my interpration.

Sharlin 9y ago

Interestingly, I feel that the character of Angel/Angelus, with his entirely black/white toggle-switch morality, is actually just acting as a foil to all of the other characters, almost becoming a supporting character in his own show! I don't think this is accidental either.

aninhumer 9y ago

I don't see that as a failing, because I don't think that's what Angel's character arc was ever trying to do. His character arc is about guilt. Besides, if you want a vampire character at war with his own evil nature, surely that's basically Spike's arc?

bitcrusher 9y ago

I think the story that WAS told was just as interesting... Angel isn't about the duality of his nature. That was a character device to actually explore Redemption. I think the show did very well at exploring that issue. Angel goes through several phases of trying to cope with what it means to be redeemed... At first, his hardline do gooder stance, where it was never acceptable to "do wrong", which, given his profession actually ended up doing more harm than good. The story continued with him having to deal with "walking the line" and ultimately, allowing others to ALSO redeem themselves, through their own journey, accepting that the path to redemption was as unique as the person who was seeking it. In a lot of ways, I actually found Angel to be much deeper than Buffy, especially as Buffy progressed through later seasons. The shows were definitely dealing with two entirely different aspects of human nature, so it is difficult to compare them fairly.