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I have a complete opposite feelings: mobile apps are actually sandboxed, modern phones have secure elements in hardware and the attack surface itself is pretty

I have a complete opposite feelings: mobile apps are actually sandboxed, modern phones have secure elements in hardware and the attack surface itself is pretty limited. On the other hand, there's virtually no sandboxing on your laptop. As software developers, we pull random code from the internet all the time and it's generally trivial to steal every secret that your user has access to (https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/) Personally I'm not worried about baseband processor (or Intel ME) owning my device. I'm more worried about some random malware installing a keylogger and/or stealing my whole LastPass database. This would be virtually impossible on mobile, but is relatively trivial on laptop.

skbohra123 9y ago
You sir, have very misplaced priorities.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  I'd argue that both risk surfaces are large, not that the priorities are misplaced. There's little of any electronics I trust much these days.
johnfocker 9y ago
True there's no sandboxing by default on a typical linux desktop but I think the key difference between the linux distributions and Android security models is that your linux distribution is supposed to run trusted free software whereas your Android device is probably going to run some proprieatary untrusted apps. That's why sandboxing is very necessary on Android and not so much on your linux box. Now I agree you should sanbox everytime you can especially when linux is well capable of it, that's why I use firejail on my desktops so I get all the awesomeness of my favorite distributions AND strong sandboxing with real ease of use. https://firejail.wordpress.com/ https://firejail.wordpress.com/ One cool trick is to hook "sudo firecfg" in your package manager post operations so whenever you install new software it get sanboxed if a firejail profile is available (which is generally true). There may be a smarter way to do just that though? That xkcd post makes a very good point indeed (that's why everybody should lock whenever afk, encrypt and use strong passwords of course) But I also think you should also worry about those backdoor issues: https://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php https://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel
jeromenerf 9y ago
I understand your feeling. I guess one can build "trust" or at least a somewhat "safe" feeling from simplicity, technical arguments, experience of a given evil ... I "feel safe" running linux or openbsd on a "computer" given that I know only too well how flawed they can be. A mobile device could offer exactly the same feeling, and maybe better objective security characteristics, but unfortunately a "mobile device" doesn't seem to be defined as a "computer" you can single handedly operate but as a mix of short lived dependencies from hardware manufacturers to walled proprietary app stores through network carriers. I don't dismiss the technical progress that is eventually happening in the mobile area but I think I'll pass as long as something as postmarketos offers what I feel is sustainable.
realusername 9y ago
The apps are indeed sandboxed but who knows what everything below is doing. I trust more the maintainer of my distribution than whoever hacked an android rom to commercialize it.

skbohra123 9y ago

You sir, have very misplaced priorities.

dredmorbius 9y ago
I'd argue that both risk surfaces are large, not that the priorities are misplaced. There's little of any electronics I trust much these days.

johnfocker 9y ago

True there's no sandboxing by default on a typical linux desktop but I think the key difference between the linux distributions and Android security models is that your linux distribution is supposed to run trusted free software whereas your Android device is probably going to run some proprieatary untrusted apps. That's why sandboxing is very necessary on Android and not so much on your linux box. Now I agree you should sanbox everytime you can especially when linux is well capable of it, that's why I use firejail on my desktops so I get all the awesomeness of my favorite distributions AND strong sandboxing with real ease of use. https://firejail.wordpress.com/ https://firejail.wordpress.com/ One cool trick is to hook "sudo firecfg" in your package manager post operations so whenever you install new software it get sanboxed if a firejail profile is available (which is generally true). There may be a smarter way to do just that though? That xkcd post makes a very good point indeed (that's why everybody should lock whenever afk, encrypt and use strong passwords of course) But I also think you should also worry about those backdoor issues: https://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php https://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel

jeromenerf 9y ago

I understand your feeling. I guess one can build "trust" or at least a somewhat "safe" feeling from simplicity, technical arguments, experience of a given evil ... I "feel safe" running linux or openbsd on a "computer" given that I know only too well how flawed they can be. A mobile device could offer exactly the same feeling, and maybe better objective security characteristics, but unfortunately a "mobile device" doesn't seem to be defined as a "computer" you can single handedly operate but as a mix of short lived dependencies from hardware manufacturers to walled proprietary app stores through network carriers. I don't dismiss the technical progress that is eventually happening in the mobile area but I think I'll pass as long as something as postmarketos offers what I feel is sustainable.

realusername 9y ago

The apps are indeed sandboxed but who knows what everything below is doing. I trust more the maintainer of my distribution than whoever hacked an android rom to commercialize it.