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Sorry, but I disagree with this. My son doesn't have any onerous 'structured supervised activities'. He mentioned from an early age that he hates team sports,

Sorry, but I disagree with this. My son doesn't have any onerous 'structured supervised activities'. He mentioned from an early age that he hates team sports, so we have never pushed him to join a team or sports club of any sort. Of late, he has signed up and been accompanying me to my Kendo lessons (his choice), which has been a good opportunity for some father/son bonding, and also a way for him to improve his fitness and mental discipline. And that word 'discipline' is a key here. Chores aren't just about slave driving. I believe it is important for young kids to get used to a routine, and to learn that sometimes you have to do things even when it is not convenient. A well raked driveway (outside in the sunshine) should give him the satisfaction of a job well done at the end of it. Plus it is also necessary, as my wife and I (and his brother) simply struggle to cope with the daily maintenance tasks around the house given our work lives. Him doing chores hopefully also will impart on him that managing a household take a lot of work, and I hope it also makes him see that my wife and I are not just house cleaning and meal preparing robots that just make things magically happen. We have the philosophy that we ALL chip in to make our house a nice place to live in.

jacobolus 9y ago
When’s the last time your son hiked into the woods by himself, jumped into a lake from a 15 foot cliff, set something on fire, had a knife throwing contest, mixed some explosive chemicals together, snuck into an event without a ticket, or built a tree fort? Or more generally, when’s the last time you left him unsupervised for 5 or 6 hours outdoors with other kids but no adults? My point is not that kids should or shouldn’t do any particular activities, or that adult supervision is inherently bad, but kids (especially 8–14 year olds, after which kids sometimes started to get part-time jobs, do more academic work, etc.) used to have dramatically more time spent on free play actively entertaining themselves, and dramatically more time spent away from adult direction or control. In my parents’ era, homework load was much lower, and kids did few structured activities at all, and spent little time looking at screens. Most kids were raised in 2-parent households where one parent was pretty much always home, and both parents were under less work stress, but families had 3–8 children and it was impossible to be always watching the kids. Nowadays neighbors call the cops if they see a 10 year old walking to school. I don’t claim that the change is inherently good or bad, and every person is different, but it tends to result in the kids feeling like they lack autonomy and like they are constantly performing for the sake of adults. Some handle it fine and excel at (and enjoy) schoolwork. For some it causes intense anxiety, or reduces general motivation. Others end up acting out in more extreme or antisocial ways in response.
- ScottBurson 9y ago
  I firmly agree with both of you :-) There is a balance to be struck here. Certainly a 14-year-old should be helping with the running of the household to some extent, but they also need free time.
zzalpha 9y ago
I can't help but laugh watching HN commenters, who probably have no kids of their own, take shots at your parenting style. You sound like you're crushing it. Keep it up, man. Personally, I grew up in a single parent family as a classic latchkey kid and greatly contributed to the household out of simple necessity. The life skills I learned were invaluable, and you're doing your kid a great service by having them learn those lessons.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  I’m not trying to “take shots at” anyone’s parenting style. Merely pointing out that parenting styles and the general societal context has changed very dramatically in the past 50 years, and modern kids in urban areas of rich countries are raised in a way dramatically unlike most kids in history, and in general with much more pressure and much stricter constraints on their time and activities, much more sitting still, and much less unsupervised time. I can’t imagine that this is a very controversial claim, as a simple statement of fact. (Obviously some kids in the past had shitty lives working in textile factories or whatever, but society has decided that forcing children to do commercial work is exploitative, and banned that.) My kid is 14 months old, but I can’t really predict what his days will be like in 10 or 15 years. I’m by no means sure I’ll want him roaming around doing the stupid seemingly dangerous shit that kids used to do 50 years ago. I’m pretty ambivalent about the form and content of standard schoolwork though, and I don’t know if I will be willing to subject him to 10+ years of it. I never really played video games much, but I can empathize with the kids who would rather play video games than do hours or pointless homework every day.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

jacobolus 9y ago

When’s the last time your son hiked into the woods by himself, jumped into a lake from a 15 foot cliff, set something on fire, had a knife throwing contest, mixed some explosive chemicals together, snuck into an event without a ticket, or built a tree fort? Or more generally, when’s the last time you left him unsupervised for 5 or 6 hours outdoors with other kids but no adults? My point is not that kids should or shouldn’t do any particular activities, or that adult supervision is inherently bad, but kids (especially 8–14 year olds, after which kids sometimes started to get part-time jobs, do more academic work, etc.) used to have dramatically more time spent on free play actively entertaining themselves, and dramatically more time spent away from adult direction or control. In my parents’ era, homework load was much lower, and kids did few structured activities at all, and spent little time looking at screens. Most kids were raised in 2-parent households where one parent was pretty much always home, and both parents were under less work stress, but families had 3–8 children and it was impossible to be always watching the kids. Nowadays neighbors call the cops if they see a 10 year old walking to school. I don’t claim that the change is inherently good or bad, and every person is different, but it tends to result in the kids feeling like they lack autonomy and like they are constantly performing for the sake of adults. Some handle it fine and excel at (and enjoy) schoolwork. For some it causes intense anxiety, or reduces general motivation. Others end up acting out in more extreme or antisocial ways in response.

ScottBurson 9y ago
I firmly agree with both of you :-) There is a balance to be struck here. Certainly a 14-year-old should be helping with the running of the household to some extent, but they also need free time.

zzalpha 9y ago

I can't help but laugh watching HN commenters, who probably have no kids of their own, take shots at your parenting style. You sound like you're crushing it. Keep it up, man. Personally, I grew up in a single parent family as a classic latchkey kid and greatly contributed to the household out of simple necessity. The life skills I learned were invaluable, and you're doing your kid a great service by having them learn those lessons.

jacobolus 9y ago
I’m not trying to “take shots at” anyone’s parenting style. Merely pointing out that parenting styles and the general societal context has changed very dramatically in the past 50 years, and modern kids in urban areas of rich countries are raised in a way dramatically unlike most kids in history, and in general with much more pressure and much stricter constraints on their time and activities, much more sitting still, and much less unsupervised time. I can’t imagine that this is a very controversial claim, as a simple statement of fact. (Obviously some kids in the past had shitty lives working in textile factories or whatever, but society has decided that forcing children to do commercial work is exploitative, and banned that.) My kid is 14 months old, but I can’t really predict what his days will be like in 10 or 15 years. I’m by no means sure I’ll want him roaming around doing the stupid seemingly dangerous shit that kids used to do 50 years ago. I’m pretty ambivalent about the form and content of standard schoolwork though, and I don’t know if I will be willing to subject him to 10+ years of it. I never really played video games much, but I can empathize with the kids who would rather play video games than do hours or pointless homework every day.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]