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Whole grains are one of the biggest sources of dietary inflammation. There isn’t something inherently wrong with grains, it’s that they’re not even close to the

Whole grains are one of the biggest sources of dietary inflammation. There isn’t something inherently wrong with grains, it’s that they’re not even close to the grains we evolved to eat anymore (at least, not in the U.S. — grains in mainland Europe are generally fine, unless you have an issue with gluten/grains such as celiacs, Crohns, or IBS). Source: Tons but the book Wheat Belly is one of the most succinct. Also, every trainer who is even half-way decent at transforming clients tells them to avoid grains, don’t discount what people are ACTUALLY doing to get results, even if a definitive study hasn’t been done on it (although many studies have been done, see Wheat Belly). Fruit falls under the category of “healthy, if you’re healthy.” If you’re overweight and inactive, and you want to lose weight, then you should not be eating fruit, or any high-sugar, high-carb food for that matter. Once you’re lean and physically active, it’s fine.

QAPereo 9y ago
Citations for this crap?
- sbenitoj 9y ago
  Hm, did you read my comment? I said source: Wheat Belly (book by Dr William Davis), but also my experience working with clients and with trainers who are experts at transforming clients from fat to fit.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Citations, not a diet books and anecdotes. Edit: hate my tone all you like, but keep in mind if this weren’t fringe bullshit I’d be met with more than downvotes and attitude.
    - sbenitoj 9y ago
      Wheat Belly is not a diet book, it’s a summary of the science out there on grains with 100s of scientific citations. Yes it has diet recommendations at the end of it.
      - gus_massa 9y ago
        The Wikipedia article only cites this article http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/2/84 http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/2/84 . Do you have a link to another paper that also supports this conclusion?
    - sooheon 9y ago
      The aversion to new facts is palpable. This is the top google hit to “wheat dietary inflammation”: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/ But really, your problem is not that the GP did not cite their facts, you just don’t like the sound of their claims, so you’ll respond in a toxic way. I hardly expect the actual scientific literature to change your views.
      - QAPereo 9y ago
        My problem seems to be that there is some significant overlap between the groups, “people who use HN” and “people who are the target audience for self help books.” Worse, are people who can’t cite and instead throw articles into the mix, while being condescending and pseudo-psychic. Just bury me in good citations and we can both be happy.
        nate_meurer 9y ago
        On the other hand, it might just be that this particular topic is unusually divisive. The science of gluten sensitivity is young, its study fraught with placebos and confounding variables, and adherents of the anti-gluten movement are often nearly religious in fervor. Asking for citations might just be asking for trouble.
        QAPereo 9y ago
        True, but there are few better demonstrations of the weakness of an argument than asking for someone to prove it, instead to be met with anger and verbiage.
      - xfiz 9y ago
        Did you even read the study? They only say that it might be possible that there could be an effect on inflammation, but also stating that there haven't been good studies done on that subject. The problem is that nutritional studies are often very narrow, only for specific cases and the same applies for the results. However, those studies are often broadly generalized by ill-informed people. I'm no expert either, so I can't say if grains would be good or bad, it's just clear to be that neither can all the other people who claim to know so.
cheald 9y ago
> every trainer who is even half-way decent at transforming clients tells them to avoid grains, don’t discount what people are ACTUALLY doing to get results Isn't it more likely that trainers tell people to avoid wheat and corn because they tend to be high-calorie, low-satiety foods? I've lost 70+ lbs over the past year on IIFYM-style caloric restriction. I still enjoy corn and wheat products, but somewhat sparingly because I'd rather have an extra half pound of chicken than a piece of bread. Cutting out grains is a quick and easy way to help people hack their caloric intake more than anything else, IMO.
- sbenitoj 9y ago
  Congrats! Yes that’s also true. But cutting grains also fixes your sense of satiety. Ever had a piece of bread and then next thing you knew the whole bread basket was gone? Many people feel like they can’t control themselves when eating bread. No one does that with steak. And even other high-carb foods like potatoes present less of a problem for people (in terms of whether they feel full and stop eating vs continuing to eat past the point of satiety). IIFYM is very effective at fat loss BUT (and I know I’m going to get shit for saying this) it requires a very specific personality type that can be very mechanical about eating. Most people don’t have the time or interest to count their macros, and even if they did they still have difficulty overcoming the urges that come with consuming junk food such as modern grains in the U.S.
  - cheald 9y ago
    I don't think it's grains in particular that mess with satiety - it's carbohydrate-heavy diets (particularly simple carbohydrates) vs protein/fats. Protein in particular is known to be highly satisfying, and it tends to be less calorie-dense than carb-heavy foods. Carb-heavy foods are everywhere, because they prepare easily and keep for a very long time, and provide a lot of calories in a small package. Sugar + fat together make our brains super happy and trigger the "put all of that in my face now" response. In the right form, even starchy carbohydrates can be really easy to put down - consider a big bowl of mashed potatoes or white rice for example! I actually agree with you about IIFYM needing the right personality type. http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/ http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/ is probably my favorite "how to be not fat" page in existence and it outlines that issue quite well - if you can be disciplined to stop eating, then IIFYM works great. If you can't, then full abstinence is pretty necessary. I find that I'm much more successful on an IIFYM diet than an abstinence diet, because on the latter I find myself craving the "forbidden fruit" and it eats at me until I crack, then I feel guilty, and it spirals from there. On IIFYM, I can let myself have whatever I'm craving, knowing that I just have to make up for it with the rest of my intake that day. The actual mechanical part of counting macros is pretty trivial once you've learned how to do it (MyFitnessPal learns your dietary habits quickly, and trivializes the process). Not every approach works for everyone, but I have a lot of frustration around a lot of the diet fads that are constantly looking for the "magic bullet" - no fat! no sugar! only specific carbs! lots of carbs! 3 gallons of coconut oil daily! Only eat every 6 days! - when, IMO, the only magic bullet is self-discipline to find out how to keep yourself from overeating, and my experience has been that that can be different for each person based on their psychological tendencies.
BernieSimon 9y ago
Dr. John McDougall refutes the arguments that whole grains are unhealthy and cause disease in his critique of Wheat Belly. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/jan/smoke.htm https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/jan/smoke.htm
dl904 9y ago
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry reading "Wheat Belly". Honestly, how does a person who writes such garbage even call himself a doctor. It should be a case study for a textbook on what bad science is, and how we are very ill-served by celebrity-doctor types who try to make a lot of money off their brand.
s4vi0r 9y ago
What's the difference between mainland European and American (north American?) grains?

QAPereo 9y ago

Citations for this crap?

sbenitoj 9y ago
Hm, did you read my comment? I said source: Wheat Belly (book by Dr William Davis), but also my experience working with clients and with trainers who are experts at transforming clients from fat to fit.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Citations, not a diet books and anecdotes. Edit: hate my tone all you like, but keep in mind if this weren’t fringe bullshit I’d be met with more than downvotes and attitude.
  - sbenitoj 9y ago
    Wheat Belly is not a diet book, it’s a summary of the science out there on grains with 100s of scientific citations. Yes it has diet recommendations at the end of it.
    - gus_massa 9y ago
      The Wikipedia article only cites this article http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/2/84 http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/2/84 . Do you have a link to another paper that also supports this conclusion?
  - sooheon 9y ago
    The aversion to new facts is palpable. This is the top google hit to “wheat dietary inflammation”: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/ But really, your problem is not that the GP did not cite their facts, you just don’t like the sound of their claims, so you’ll respond in a toxic way. I hardly expect the actual scientific literature to change your views.
    - QAPereo 9y ago
      My problem seems to be that there is some significant overlap between the groups, “people who use HN” and “people who are the target audience for self help books.” Worse, are people who can’t cite and instead throw articles into the mix, while being condescending and pseudo-psychic. Just bury me in good citations and we can both be happy.
      - nate_meurer 9y ago
        On the other hand, it might just be that this particular topic is unusually divisive. The science of gluten sensitivity is young, its study fraught with placebos and confounding variables, and adherents of the anti-gluten movement are often nearly religious in fervor. Asking for citations might just be asking for trouble.
        QAPereo 9y ago
        True, but there are few better demonstrations of the weakness of an argument than asking for someone to prove it, instead to be met with anger and verbiage.
    - xfiz 9y ago
      Did you even read the study? They only say that it might be possible that there could be an effect on inflammation, but also stating that there haven't been good studies done on that subject. The problem is that nutritional studies are often very narrow, only for specific cases and the same applies for the results. However, those studies are often broadly generalized by ill-informed people. I'm no expert either, so I can't say if grains would be good or bad, it's just clear to be that neither can all the other people who claim to know so.

cheald 9y ago

> every trainer who is even half-way decent at transforming clients tells them to avoid grains, don’t discount what people are ACTUALLY doing to get results Isn't it more likely that trainers tell people to avoid wheat and corn because they tend to be high-calorie, low-satiety foods? I've lost 70+ lbs over the past year on IIFYM-style caloric restriction. I still enjoy corn and wheat products, but somewhat sparingly because I'd rather have an extra half pound of chicken than a piece of bread. Cutting out grains is a quick and easy way to help people hack their caloric intake more than anything else, IMO.

sbenitoj 9y ago
Congrats! Yes that’s also true. But cutting grains also fixes your sense of satiety. Ever had a piece of bread and then next thing you knew the whole bread basket was gone? Many people feel like they can’t control themselves when eating bread. No one does that with steak. And even other high-carb foods like potatoes present less of a problem for people (in terms of whether they feel full and stop eating vs continuing to eat past the point of satiety). IIFYM is very effective at fat loss BUT (and I know I’m going to get shit for saying this) it requires a very specific personality type that can be very mechanical about eating. Most people don’t have the time or interest to count their macros, and even if they did they still have difficulty overcoming the urges that come with consuming junk food such as modern grains in the U.S.
- cheald 9y ago
  I don't think it's grains in particular that mess with satiety - it's carbohydrate-heavy diets (particularly simple carbohydrates) vs protein/fats. Protein in particular is known to be highly satisfying, and it tends to be less calorie-dense than carb-heavy foods. Carb-heavy foods are everywhere, because they prepare easily and keep for a very long time, and provide a lot of calories in a small package. Sugar + fat together make our brains super happy and trigger the "put all of that in my face now" response. In the right form, even starchy carbohydrates can be really easy to put down - consider a big bowl of mashed potatoes or white rice for example! I actually agree with you about IIFYM needing the right personality type. http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/ http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/ is probably my favorite "how to be not fat" page in existence and it outlines that issue quite well - if you can be disciplined to stop eating, then IIFYM works great. If you can't, then full abstinence is pretty necessary. I find that I'm much more successful on an IIFYM diet than an abstinence diet, because on the latter I find myself craving the "forbidden fruit" and it eats at me until I crack, then I feel guilty, and it spirals from there. On IIFYM, I can let myself have whatever I'm craving, knowing that I just have to make up for it with the rest of my intake that day. The actual mechanical part of counting macros is pretty trivial once you've learned how to do it (MyFitnessPal learns your dietary habits quickly, and trivializes the process). Not every approach works for everyone, but I have a lot of frustration around a lot of the diet fads that are constantly looking for the "magic bullet" - no fat! no sugar! only specific carbs! lots of carbs! 3 gallons of coconut oil daily! Only eat every 6 days! - when, IMO, the only magic bullet is self-discipline to find out how to keep yourself from overeating, and my experience has been that that can be different for each person based on their psychological tendencies.

BernieSimon 9y ago

Dr. John McDougall refutes the arguments that whole grains are unhealthy and cause disease in his critique of Wheat Belly. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/jan/smoke.htm https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/jan/smoke.htm

dl904 9y ago

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry reading "Wheat Belly". Honestly, how does a person who writes such garbage even call himself a doctor. It should be a case study for a textbook on what bad science is, and how we are very ill-served by celebrity-doctor types who try to make a lot of money off their brand.

s4vi0r 9y ago

What's the difference between mainland European and American (north American?) grains?