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Without saying how much is too much :) I wanted to know because it is probably really hard to reach without processing the sugar. IIRC dates are most fructose

by cies 9y ago

Without saying how much is too much :) I wanted to know because it is probably really hard to reach without processing the sugar. IIRC dates are most fructose dense food we can find in nature. How many dates would be enough to damage my liver? It would probably be hard to hurt your liver with alsohol as well, if you limit yourself to unprocessed alcohol (i.e.: by eating off fruits).

teach 9y ago
I suspect there's no good answer to that question. People vary widely. Some people drink lots of alcohol for years with relatively unscathed livers and others get cirrhosis pretty quickly. But your instinct is right that fructose that's bound up in real fruit isn't typically the problem. It's unbound fructose like you find in agave nectar or HFCS.
- SigmundA 9y ago
  Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Dates sugar content is mostly sucrose which is broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50 glucose/fructose while HFCS is typically 45/55 glucose/fructose. Once one sucrose is metabolized by sucrase it hits the bloodstream as glucose and fructose no different than HFSC. Doesn't only matter in the end how much fructose you consume regardless of whether enters your body bound as sucrose or not as HFCS? Can you point to some more information are the differences?
  - teach 9y ago
    That's why I said "unbound" fructose. Sucrose is glucose and fructose with a chemical bond between. HFCS is a slurry; there's no chemical bond connecting the two. "Broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50..." ignores the fact that it takes a while to make it down as far as the small intestine. I can't speak more to the differences personally because I'm not the one with the PhD and I'm not going to interrupt my wife from grading papers just to correct some rando on the Internet. :)
    - SigmundA 9y ago
      Both sucrose and HFSC must make it to the small intestine to be metabolized, the only difference is the chemical bond is broken by sucrase in the intestinal wall. Both are metabolized quickly and into the same components in the bloodstream. I am still not seeing the difference? edit Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "unbound" I thought you where referring to the chemical bond in sucrose, vs being bound up physically with fiber in fruit.
  - tylererer 9y ago
    Industrial sugar contains no fiber vs. the fiber in many fruits complementing the fructose and ameliorating potentially harmful effects meanwhile slowing digestion [1]. My guess is this leads to a more sustained energy boost and relatively mild to nonexistent crash depending on how well your body reacts to carbohydrates. One may need to be somewhat more moderate with dates as they contain little fiber to sugar content - hinting at the importance of varying your fruit diet. [1] https://nutritionfacts.org/video/if-fructose-is-bad-what-about-fruit/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/if-fructose-is-bad-what-abo...
    - SigmundA 9y ago
      So based on that it looks like nothing to do with sucrose vs HFSC, only that the berries have some other properties like binding the sugar up in fiber that slow down metabolism. It would seem if you bound HFSC up with fiber it would have the same effect.
  - DiThi 9y ago
    > Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Fruit has loads of fiber, although less than what our ancestors gathered, and in less quantity. Fiber is what produces satiety. For the same reason fruit juice is not good for you.
    - SigmundA 9y ago
      Again seems like that has nothing to do with HFSC or sucrose, only whats its mixed with.
  - Gibbon1 9y ago
    > Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS Two things, people just don't eat that much fruit, usually. And whole fruits/vegetables when eaten release glucose and fructose slowly as the digestive enzymes slowly break it down. I think the idea is not to force your body to deal with a big slug of glucose and fructose all at once.
arikr 9y ago
I've read Lustig's book, and my recollection is that he says that more than 10% of your daily calories from (all, both added sugar and naturally included sugar, if I remember correctly) sugar is too much. So if you're eating 2000 calories/day, then 200 calories from sugar, which means 200/4 = 50 grams total (including added sugar). Separately, on the sugar science website they say: > our scientific team recommends keeping all added sugars below the recommended limits of 6 teaspoons/day (25g) for women and 9 teaspoons (38g) for men. http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-faq.html http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-faq.html
- runeks 9y ago
  So one orange, a large apple and a banana per day will hurt my liver (totaling 63 grams of sugar[1])? Where is the scientific evidence supporting this? [1] http://www.sugarstacks.com/fruits.htm http://www.sugarstacks.com/fruits.htm
  - kieranmaine 9y ago
    I just watched a documentary where Lustig said sugar in fruit is fine because the fibre in the fruit means you absorb the sugar over a period of time, meaning the liver doesn't get one big hit.
    - siquick 9y ago
      No citation available, but I see far more people drinking fruit juice than I do eating fruit with the skin/fibre still intact.
      - buttcoinslol 9y ago
        Roughly 25 years ago when I was a kid, I remember drinking orange juice out of small 4" glasses with oranges on the side at diners and in homes. These glasses hold about 6 oz of juice, which is about 85 calories. These glasses have been replaced by much larger ones. These days a 'small' juice is 12-16 oz, or 150-200 calories, which is just as bad as pop. Portion sizes are growing with the collective waistline of America.
gopalv 9y ago
> Without saying how much is too much Body weight, metabolism and exercise have to be big variables. The scary part is how much sugar sneaks into your daily diet without noticing - I kept count of the sugar grams per day for a workday and I had about 98 gms of sugar & that's where it got labelled (unlike a tomato sauce pasta). Anyway, all it taught me is that even if exercised like a madman, I won't lose the "moved to US" weight gain without minor diet changes - but what surprised me was that my diet was a good one in the meals, it is just the middle-of-meals grabbing of things that pushed that number up (like a yogurt). > How many dates would be enough to damage my liver? I was told that there's two ways to drink twelve glasses of alcohol a month - one's to hit six for two weekends and the other is to drink a glass on Fri, Sat and Sun. And then said "it's like three pats on the back a week or two punches a month". Bodies heal and repair damage - and at a varying rate as you age.

by cies 9y ago

teach 9y ago

I suspect there's no good answer to that question. People vary widely. Some people drink lots of alcohol for years with relatively unscathed livers and others get cirrhosis pretty quickly. But your instinct is right that fructose that's bound up in real fruit isn't typically the problem. It's unbound fructose like you find in agave nectar or HFCS.

SigmundA 9y ago
Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Dates sugar content is mostly sucrose which is broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50 glucose/fructose while HFCS is typically 45/55 glucose/fructose. Once one sucrose is metabolized by sucrase it hits the bloodstream as glucose and fructose no different than HFSC. Doesn't only matter in the end how much fructose you consume regardless of whether enters your body bound as sucrose or not as HFCS? Can you point to some more information are the differences?
- teach 9y ago
  That's why I said "unbound" fructose. Sucrose is glucose and fructose with a chemical bond between. HFCS is a slurry; there's no chemical bond connecting the two. "Broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50..." ignores the fact that it takes a while to make it down as far as the small intestine. I can't speak more to the differences personally because I'm not the one with the PhD and I'm not going to interrupt my wife from grading papers just to correct some rando on the Internet. :)
  - SigmundA 9y ago
    Both sucrose and HFSC must make it to the small intestine to be metabolized, the only difference is the chemical bond is broken by sucrase in the intestinal wall. Both are metabolized quickly and into the same components in the bloodstream. I am still not seeing the difference? edit Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "unbound" I thought you where referring to the chemical bond in sucrose, vs being bound up physically with fiber in fruit.
- tylererer 9y ago
  Industrial sugar contains no fiber vs. the fiber in many fruits complementing the fructose and ameliorating potentially harmful effects meanwhile slowing digestion [1]. My guess is this leads to a more sustained energy boost and relatively mild to nonexistent crash depending on how well your body reacts to carbohydrates. One may need to be somewhat more moderate with dates as they contain little fiber to sugar content - hinting at the importance of varying your fruit diet. [1] https://nutritionfacts.org/video/if-fructose-is-bad-what-about-fruit/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/if-fructose-is-bad-what-abo...
  - SigmundA 9y ago
    So based on that it looks like nothing to do with sucrose vs HFSC, only that the berries have some other properties like binding the sugar up in fiber that slow down metabolism. It would seem if you bound HFSC up with fiber it would have the same effect.
- DiThi 9y ago
  > Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Fruit has loads of fiber, although less than what our ancestors gathered, and in less quantity. Fiber is what produces satiety. For the same reason fruit juice is not good for you.
  - SigmundA 9y ago
    Again seems like that has nothing to do with HFSC or sucrose, only whats its mixed with.
- Gibbon1 9y ago
  > Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS Two things, people just don't eat that much fruit, usually. And whole fruits/vegetables when eaten release glucose and fructose slowly as the digestive enzymes slowly break it down. I think the idea is not to force your body to deal with a big slug of glucose and fructose all at once.

arikr 9y ago

I've read Lustig's book, and my recollection is that he says that more than 10% of your daily calories from (all, both added sugar and naturally included sugar, if I remember correctly) sugar is too much. So if you're eating 2000 calories/day, then 200 calories from sugar, which means 200/4 = 50 grams total (including added sugar). Separately, on the sugar science website they say: > our scientific team recommends keeping all added sugars below the recommended limits of 6 teaspoons/day (25g) for women and 9 teaspoons (38g) for men. http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-faq.html http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-faq.html

runeks 9y ago
So one orange, a large apple and a banana per day will hurt my liver (totaling 63 grams of sugar[1])? Where is the scientific evidence supporting this? [1] http://www.sugarstacks.com/fruits.htm http://www.sugarstacks.com/fruits.htm
- kieranmaine 9y ago
  I just watched a documentary where Lustig said sugar in fruit is fine because the fibre in the fruit means you absorb the sugar over a period of time, meaning the liver doesn't get one big hit.
  - siquick 9y ago
    No citation available, but I see far more people drinking fruit juice than I do eating fruit with the skin/fibre still intact.
    - buttcoinslol 9y ago
      Roughly 25 years ago when I was a kid, I remember drinking orange juice out of small 4" glasses with oranges on the side at diners and in homes. These glasses hold about 6 oz of juice, which is about 85 calories. These glasses have been replaced by much larger ones. These days a 'small' juice is 12-16 oz, or 150-200 calories, which is just as bad as pop. Portion sizes are growing with the collective waistline of America.

gopalv 9y ago

> Without saying how much is too much Body weight, metabolism and exercise have to be big variables. The scary part is how much sugar sneaks into your daily diet without noticing - I kept count of the sugar grams per day for a workday and I had about 98 gms of sugar & that's where it got labelled (unlike a tomato sauce pasta). Anyway, all it taught me is that even if exercised like a madman, I won't lose the "moved to US" weight gain without minor diet changes - but what surprised me was that my diet was a good one in the meals, it is just the middle-of-meals grabbing of things that pushed that number up (like a yogurt). > How many dates would be enough to damage my liver? I was told that there's two ways to drink twelve glasses of alcohol a month - one's to hit six for two weekends and the other is to drink a glass on Fri, Sat and Sun. And then said "it's like three pats on the back a week or two punches a month". Bodies heal and repair damage - and at a varying rate as you age.