8 ms·

China Bans Foreign Waste – What Will Happen to the World's Recycling?

73 points by kungfudoi 9y ago

ggm 9y ago
China invests in Africa. This is both an economic (coltan, and trade) decision, and a political (influence, votes in the UN) decision. Now, it looks like it might be a shrewd environmental decision, if you are a province in China with a huge pollution problem from plastics recycling. Voila! export the problem to Africa. .. (not saying this is good in any sense, but it would make sense as an operating model: its what we did to them, so they do it to the next emerging colonial empire)
- powerapple 9y ago
  Why the fxxk you drew conclusion like this? It has nothing to do with Chinese domestic wastes. It is about wastes used to ship to China. There are many other countries has been the dump field for west for so many years. India for example. Yes, Africa. If China has been processing imported wastes for a very long time, they should be able to process domestic wastes for some time. I am Chinese, and I get very annoyed that for any title with 'China' in it, you just draw negative conclusion from it which has nothing to do with the article.
  - King-Aaron 9y ago
    I think you're overreacting to a point that the other guy wasn't making.
  - ShabbosGoy 9y ago
    > I am Chinese, and I get very annoyed that for any title with 'China' in it, you just draw negative conclusion from it which has nothing to do with the article. In general, I've found that Western media outlets are gratuitously negative to certain countries - especially if they were under colonial control at some point. Colonialism never really died, they just rebranded it as "globalism".
  - ggm 9y ago
    I'm not sure I understand why you think this is anti Chinese? All China is doing is recapitulating colonialism. I expect there are good social and economic reasons to stop polluting Chinese provinces with imported wastes, but Chinese businesses will want to retain profit and trade. Therefore relocating recycling businesses overseas makes sense. China has now deep roots in Africa primarily aimed at extraction of raw materials but also for sale of goods and services (Huawei for instance supply African mobile operators with turnkey solutions) so inviting African economies with low barriers to pollution and lax labour laws to bid for contracts to reprocess waste is surely normal? Isn't that why the UK and Europe export the waste to China? Britain used to make ships. Then ship making moved to Portugal and then Poland, and then Korea. Trade moves to low labour cost economies. As China tightens pollution and labour law the cost of processing waste will rise until it's more economic to do it somewhere else. I just expect Chinese business to defiantly retain a role in that. The votes in the UN yes, that was perhaps unfortunately said. I apologize. If I said China was merely redressing systemically acquired imbalances by investing in Africa and the Pacific islands,and the quid pro quo was mutuality, would that be better? I love China. I visit it frequently, lots of Chinese companies invest in Australia, our economic future is closely tied. I am tired of dissembling in this space. What China is doing is not immoral: it's amoral, no different to what the west did, does.
    - robert42 9y ago
      The article is not about China exporting waste to Africa. It is about how the Western world might get refused to export their waste to China. Meaning how China is leaving its position of subordinate. Yet, each time there is an article about China, people here feels the need to point out what China is doing wrong and how China is going to dominate. Also there is a lot articles from the nytimes published here who feels more like warning people that China is going to dominate "us". This is a long-time classic pattern actually : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril I am french and white here. When I was young I read, as plenty of my friends, these kind of book : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus or Lucky Luke with its really cliche depictions of Chinese. It was normal but for sure it shows some racist patterns towards chinese people and people perceived as chinese here in France. Actually the consequences are obvious : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/28/police-and-protesters-clash-in-paris-over-death-of-chinese-man https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/28/police-and-pro... I think it doesn't free China of criticism and what is happening in Africa is wrong. But coming from westerners like me.. I mean a french criticizing China taking over Africa feels more like a dog fighting other dogs to keep his bone. After you are free to act like if US or other imperialist power/western countries are so different but I am very skeptical when I see reactions here. People from our imperialist countries act like if they wanted to keep Africa for their own economic development, otherwise they would massively protest against our militaries and our companies ruling over Africa.
dang 9y ago
Url changed from https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-bans-foreign-waste-but-what-will-happen-to-the-worlds-recycling/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-bans-foreig..., which points to this.
imron 9y ago
> what will happen to the world’s recycling? It will move to another country whose leaders value money over the environment. China now has enough money and clout to say no. There are plenty of places that don't.
andrewstuart 9y ago
Reposted from a few days ago... incredibly relevant to this post. I urge you to stop believing in recycling. Here's some things to think about: The "packaging" industry, is in fact a nice way of saying the "garbage manufacturing" industry. At least in Australia, the "recycling industry" is owned by the "packaging industry". Hmmm.. why is that? It put it to you that the garbage manufacturing industry has in fact worked out how to "own" the environmental movement by pushing "recycling" as the "balance" to the spewing forth of garbage from the packaging industry. The packaging industry must be laughing so hard at how easily it has owned the environmental movement. Have you ever wondered if all that packaging you put in your recycle bin gets recycled? It's a question worth thinking about. I have come to believe that recycling, which environmentalists embrace deeply as a core value, is in fact just a smokescreen that allows everyone to feel OK about the garbage manufacturing industry creating an unending quantity of plastics that have made their way into every nook and cranny of our ecosystem. Please, stop believing in recycling.... if you recycle, then you do not question the unbelievable, and unrecyclable, quantity of plastic packaging that you consume. One you stop believing in recycling, you start to ask the question, "why the heck do we permit the packaging industry to create this unstoppable flow of garbage" Seems to me that world MUST eventually move to a solution which is a set of standardised containers for all products, which are durable, washable, have a refund value attached, and may have paper corporate brand stuck on them after being washed. Another strategy worth bringing forward is the idea of "garbage brands"..... showing off all those precious brands but in their true context... as garbage in our creeks, rivers and oceans, drains and footpaths. Once brands start to become associated with garbage, they might rethinkg whether they want their names and logos on the digusting mess destroying our environment. Please, stop believing in recycling and the smokescreen will clear and you will start to ask questions about the packaging industry and our community/commercial system that supports it. Asbestos, tobacco, sugary foods, packaging - all industries that have fooled us into believing things that are wrong but served their own ends. The packaging industry has fooled us into thinking that it is OK because recycling exists.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > which environmentalists embrace deeply as a core value Environmentalists say "reduce, re-use, recycle" - recycling is the last, worst, option in this phrase. Reducing the stuff you buy being the first, best, option.
wiineeth 9y ago
Probably will shift to india
Myrmornis 9y ago
Very oddly written article. The author seems to assume that the US and EU are above doing whatever China does with the recycled plastics.
- ztjio 9y ago
  They are above paying subhuman wages for extreme exposure to dangerous and toxic environments for extended periods of time. Yes.
  - basicplus2 9y ago
    Now maybe, but they weren't during the western industrial revolution and well beyond! Geez read some history!
- timthelion 9y ago
  They are above it. In a turn up their noses and leave it to the third world to do the dirty work sort of way. Burning plastic is regulated in the EU, using recycled plastic is basically forbidden due to the risk of contamination with lead and other toxic chemicals. It's like the king who is above cleaning his toilet.

73 points by kungfudoi 9y ago

ggm 9y ago

China invests in Africa. This is both an economic (coltan, and trade) decision, and a political (influence, votes in the UN) decision. Now, it looks like it might be a shrewd environmental decision, if you are a province in China with a huge pollution problem from plastics recycling. Voila! export the problem to Africa. .. (not saying this is good in any sense, but it would make sense as an operating model: its what we did to them, so they do it to the next emerging colonial empire)

powerapple 9y ago
Why the fxxk you drew conclusion like this? It has nothing to do with Chinese domestic wastes. It is about wastes used to ship to China. There are many other countries has been the dump field for west for so many years. India for example. Yes, Africa. If China has been processing imported wastes for a very long time, they should be able to process domestic wastes for some time. I am Chinese, and I get very annoyed that for any title with 'China' in it, you just draw negative conclusion from it which has nothing to do with the article.
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  I think you're overreacting to a point that the other guy wasn't making.
- ShabbosGoy 9y ago
  > I am Chinese, and I get very annoyed that for any title with 'China' in it, you just draw negative conclusion from it which has nothing to do with the article. In general, I've found that Western media outlets are gratuitously negative to certain countries - especially if they were under colonial control at some point. Colonialism never really died, they just rebranded it as "globalism".
- ggm 9y ago
  I'm not sure I understand why you think this is anti Chinese? All China is doing is recapitulating colonialism. I expect there are good social and economic reasons to stop polluting Chinese provinces with imported wastes, but Chinese businesses will want to retain profit and trade. Therefore relocating recycling businesses overseas makes sense. China has now deep roots in Africa primarily aimed at extraction of raw materials but also for sale of goods and services (Huawei for instance supply African mobile operators with turnkey solutions) so inviting African economies with low barriers to pollution and lax labour laws to bid for contracts to reprocess waste is surely normal? Isn't that why the UK and Europe export the waste to China? Britain used to make ships. Then ship making moved to Portugal and then Poland, and then Korea. Trade moves to low labour cost economies. As China tightens pollution and labour law the cost of processing waste will rise until it's more economic to do it somewhere else. I just expect Chinese business to defiantly retain a role in that. The votes in the UN yes, that was perhaps unfortunately said. I apologize. If I said China was merely redressing systemically acquired imbalances by investing in Africa and the Pacific islands,and the quid pro quo was mutuality, would that be better? I love China. I visit it frequently, lots of Chinese companies invest in Australia, our economic future is closely tied. I am tired of dissembling in this space. What China is doing is not immoral: it's amoral, no different to what the west did, does.
  - robert42 9y ago
    The article is not about China exporting waste to Africa. It is about how the Western world might get refused to export their waste to China. Meaning how China is leaving its position of subordinate. Yet, each time there is an article about China, people here feels the need to point out what China is doing wrong and how China is going to dominate. Also there is a lot articles from the nytimes published here who feels more like warning people that China is going to dominate "us". This is a long-time classic pattern actually : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril I am french and white here. When I was young I read, as plenty of my friends, these kind of book : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus or Lucky Luke with its really cliche depictions of Chinese. It was normal but for sure it shows some racist patterns towards chinese people and people perceived as chinese here in France. Actually the consequences are obvious : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/28/police-and-protesters-clash-in-paris-over-death-of-chinese-man https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/28/police-and-pro... I think it doesn't free China of criticism and what is happening in Africa is wrong. But coming from westerners like me.. I mean a french criticizing China taking over Africa feels more like a dog fighting other dogs to keep his bone. After you are free to act like if US or other imperialist power/western countries are so different but I am very skeptical when I see reactions here. People from our imperialist countries act like if they wanted to keep Africa for their own economic development, otherwise they would massively protest against our militaries and our companies ruling over Africa.

dang 9y ago

Url changed from https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-bans-foreign-waste-but-what-will-happen-to-the-worlds-recycling/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-bans-foreig..., which points to this.

imron 9y ago

> what will happen to the world’s recycling? It will move to another country whose leaders value money over the environment. China now has enough money and clout to say no. There are plenty of places that don't.

andrewstuart 9y ago

Reposted from a few days ago... incredibly relevant to this post. I urge you to stop believing in recycling. Here's some things to think about: The "packaging" industry, is in fact a nice way of saying the "garbage manufacturing" industry. At least in Australia, the "recycling industry" is owned by the "packaging industry". Hmmm.. why is that? It put it to you that the garbage manufacturing industry has in fact worked out how to "own" the environmental movement by pushing "recycling" as the "balance" to the spewing forth of garbage from the packaging industry. The packaging industry must be laughing so hard at how easily it has owned the environmental movement. Have you ever wondered if all that packaging you put in your recycle bin gets recycled? It's a question worth thinking about. I have come to believe that recycling, which environmentalists embrace deeply as a core value, is in fact just a smokescreen that allows everyone to feel OK about the garbage manufacturing industry creating an unending quantity of plastics that have made their way into every nook and cranny of our ecosystem. Please, stop believing in recycling.... if you recycle, then you do not question the unbelievable, and unrecyclable, quantity of plastic packaging that you consume. One you stop believing in recycling, you start to ask the question, "why the heck do we permit the packaging industry to create this unstoppable flow of garbage" Seems to me that world MUST eventually move to a solution which is a set of standardised containers for all products, which are durable, washable, have a refund value attached, and may have paper corporate brand stuck on them after being washed. Another strategy worth bringing forward is the idea of "garbage brands"..... showing off all those precious brands but in their true context... as garbage in our creeks, rivers and oceans, drains and footpaths. Once brands start to become associated with garbage, they might rethinkg whether they want their names and logos on the digusting mess destroying our environment. Please, stop believing in recycling and the smokescreen will clear and you will start to ask questions about the packaging industry and our community/commercial system that supports it. Asbestos, tobacco, sugary foods, packaging - all industries that have fooled us into believing things that are wrong but served their own ends. The packaging industry has fooled us into thinking that it is OK because recycling exists.

DanBC 9y ago
> which environmentalists embrace deeply as a core value Environmentalists say "reduce, re-use, recycle" - recycling is the last, worst, option in this phrase. Reducing the stuff you buy being the first, best, option.

wiineeth 9y ago

Probably will shift to india

Myrmornis 9y ago

Very oddly written article. The author seems to assume that the US and EU are above doing whatever China does with the recycled plastics.

ztjio 9y ago
They are above paying subhuman wages for extreme exposure to dangerous and toxic environments for extended periods of time. Yes.
- basicplus2 9y ago
  Now maybe, but they weren't during the western industrial revolution and well beyond! Geez read some history!
timthelion 9y ago
They are above it. In a turn up their noses and leave it to the third world to do the dirty work sort of way. Burning plastic is regulated in the EU, using recycled plastic is basically forbidden due to the risk of contamination with lead and other toxic chemicals. It's like the king who is above cleaning his toilet.