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1) That's false. AlphaGo did not just train by self-play. It trained on millions of pre-played games, and the bot also uses hand-engineered features for their M

1) That's false. AlphaGo did not just train by self-play. It trained on millions of pre-played games, and the bot also uses hand-engineered features for their MCTS hybrid (best) model. Refer to their paper for details. 2) Read the article that you are referencing please. What you are implying is not the thesis of that article nor is it what Geoffrey Hinton is saying. What Hinton is saying is, we should throw out deep learning. What he is saying is that the current approaches to AI are fundamentally broken and aren't going to result in artificial general intelligence. Backpropagation is not just used in supervised learning, it is also used in unsupervised learning. I happen to agree with Hinton, in that there is too much hype around the current state and successes of AI, which has mainly been in "narrow AI". AI is a term that gets thrown around a lot these days. But there is a big difference between technology that automates the tedious tasks of daily life, and artificial general intelligence. In the world of deep learning, data is king.

sikan 9y ago
https://deepmind.com/blog/alphago-zero-learning-scratch/ https://deepmind.com/blog/alphago-zero-learning-scratch/ >After just three days of self-play training, AlphaGo Zero emphatically defeated the previously published version of AlphaGo - which had itself defeated 18-time world champion Lee Sedol - by 100 games to 0. After 40 days of self training, AlphaGo Zero became even stronger, outperforming the version of AlphaGo known as “Master”, which has defeated the world's best players and world number one Ke Jie.
vladislav 9y ago
Sorry, but you are incorrect on both accounts. 1) AlphaGo Zero was indeed trained in the way I mention. 2) As directly quoted from the article, Hinton believes that a better way of learning doesn't require all that labeled data. If such a method is invented, as is required to push AI forward, big corporations would not have a data advantage, which is my original point.
- computerex 9y ago
  AlphaGo, trained using supervised learning using games from KGS: https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/alphago/AlphaGoNaturePaper.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/alphago/AlphaG... AlphaGo scratch: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24270.epdf https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24270.epdf I was specifically talking about AlphaGo, not AlphaGo scratch. Also, if you read the paper about AlphaGo scratch, the key innovation driving the self-learning is the use of MCTS as a policy improver, which couldn't have feasibly been done without AlphaGo and the supervised learning. And I think Hinton is saying that we need fundamental breakthroughs for AI, and I don't think he is in favor of "traditional" modern neural network architectures. Anything that requires SGD, he doesn't like.

sikan 9y ago

https://deepmind.com/blog/alphago-zero-learning-scratch/ https://deepmind.com/blog/alphago-zero-learning-scratch/ >After just three days of self-play training, AlphaGo Zero emphatically defeated the previously published version of AlphaGo - which had itself defeated 18-time world champion Lee Sedol - by 100 games to 0. After 40 days of self training, AlphaGo Zero became even stronger, outperforming the version of AlphaGo known as “Master”, which has defeated the world's best players and world number one Ke Jie.

vladislav 9y ago

Sorry, but you are incorrect on both accounts. 1) AlphaGo Zero was indeed trained in the way I mention. 2) As directly quoted from the article, Hinton believes that a better way of learning doesn't require all that labeled data. If such a method is invented, as is required to push AI forward, big corporations would not have a data advantage, which is my original point.

computerex 9y ago
AlphaGo, trained using supervised learning using games from KGS: https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/alphago/AlphaGoNaturePaper.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/alphago/AlphaG... AlphaGo scratch: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24270.epdf https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24270.epdf I was specifically talking about AlphaGo, not AlphaGo scratch. Also, if you read the paper about AlphaGo scratch, the key innovation driving the self-learning is the use of MCTS as a policy improver, which couldn't have feasibly been done without AlphaGo and the supervised learning. And I think Hinton is saying that we need fundamental breakthroughs for AI, and I don't think he is in favor of "traditional" modern neural network architectures. Anything that requires SGD, he doesn't like.