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I thought you might link that [0] article. In includes deaths attributed to "economic pressures", and "U.S. military supplies". It also includes all deaths on

I thought you might link that [0] article. In includes deaths attributed to "economic pressures", and "U.S. military supplies". It also includes all deaths on both sides of the wars that they judged the US to have been a factor in, regardless of whether the US was involved. - It includes 1.6 million deaths from the Soviet Union's war on Afghanistan, which the US was not involved in, because the US "lured the Soviet Union into war". - It includes 750,000 deaths from the US arming Angolan revolutionaries overthrowing colonial rulers. That's just "A" on the alphabetical list of countries. If you want to blame the US for every tangential death, you can do so openly here. While you do that, China continues to actively repress a billion people. I mentioned Kent State because it's the standard Chinese apologist response to Tienanmen. You should read more about some of the countries we were fighting. Many of the things that the US did in Cambodia and Iraq were utterly shameful. While we did those shameful things, they were committing genocide [1][2]. History is more complicated than an evil US butchering every innocent country it can find. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_genocide

yesenadam 9y ago
I've already put in a lot of hours to that depressing topic, mostly a couple of decades ago. That Scott Noble stuff recently was more than enough. I do seem to remember Saddam got into power with U.S. help, then they sold him about 10 kinds of chemical weapons. Have heard a bit about Pol Pot. Not sure why you just mention those 2 countries. If I want to what?... Uh. So I guess you know all about the U.S-funded fanning of extreme Muslim flames in the area. With the purpose of starting a war, wasn't it? But sure, 'tangential', no abuse of human rights there. Well, maybe you're an expert - what do you believe is the total number killed by the U.S.? Less than "millions"? I notice you did the straw man thing that you did here also with user982's LeMay comment - finishing your post with something the other person didn't say and saying it's not true. Also I'm getting that you think the U.S. isn't evil but other countries are 'truly evil'. Sounds familiar. Well, thanks. Sorry, I wish I had the interest/energy/time etc for a long exchange about this, but I don't.
- semperdark 9y ago
  I'm not sure what straw man you're referring to, but I'll address yours: I have never called the US perfect, and it has done many evil things. The difference is that you can talk about them without disappearing. You and User982 are criticizing the easy target that is the US and in the process deflecting from the vast oppressive machine that is China. This is a post about China, and US atrocities don't excuse the greater Chinese ones. No straw man involved.
  - yesenadam 9y ago
    "Criticizing the history of the United States is fine, but it's not even in the same universe regarding human rights abuses." I thought this was an outrageous remark, and felt compelled to object. But you say that's deflecting from a vast oppressive machine. Criticizing an easy target. Trying to cast the US as the world's "bad guy". No-one said you called the US perfect. No-one said US atrocities excuse Chinese ones. I guess if by definition you say Chinese ones are greater, and I guess they are one of the "truly evil" countries you referred to, there's not much can be said to you. The US merely has done evil things - other countries actually are truly evil. I guess it's natural for humans to think that way about their own group, but still, it bears reflecting on, that each group thinks that way about itself and others. Whole countries have disappeared in the 20th C when they say they want to do things their own way, not the way the US wants - not just individuals. But it seems you don't see that. "Trying to cast the US as the world's "bad guy" isn't brave or controversial, it just gives cover to the truly evil nations committing ongoing genocide." There are a number of interesting things going on in that sentence. It's so thick with what seem to me labels, ad hominem dismissals, false assumptions, straw men etc that it's impossible for you to hear what is said to you on this subject. You said criticism is fine but keep coming up with reasons why it's not. This has been interesting for me, thanks. Anyway, I'm still wondering - are you only interested in what the total number of US killings has been, or only what it isn't? What's your estimate of the total? You are obviously better informed than me on the subject, or at least think you are, having told me to read more about it. I repeat: What's your estimate of the total number of US killings?

yesenadam 9y ago

I've already put in a lot of hours to that depressing topic, mostly a couple of decades ago. That Scott Noble stuff recently was more than enough. I do seem to remember Saddam got into power with U.S. help, then they sold him about 10 kinds of chemical weapons. Have heard a bit about Pol Pot. Not sure why you just mention those 2 countries. If I want to what?... Uh. So I guess you know all about the U.S-funded fanning of extreme Muslim flames in the area. With the purpose of starting a war, wasn't it? But sure, 'tangential', no abuse of human rights there. Well, maybe you're an expert - what do you believe is the total number killed by the U.S.? Less than "millions"? I notice you did the straw man thing that you did here also with user982's LeMay comment - finishing your post with something the other person didn't say and saying it's not true. Also I'm getting that you think the U.S. isn't evil but other countries are 'truly evil'. Sounds familiar. Well, thanks. Sorry, I wish I had the interest/energy/time etc for a long exchange about this, but I don't.

semperdark 9y ago
I'm not sure what straw man you're referring to, but I'll address yours: I have never called the US perfect, and it has done many evil things. The difference is that you can talk about them without disappearing. You and User982 are criticizing the easy target that is the US and in the process deflecting from the vast oppressive machine that is China. This is a post about China, and US atrocities don't excuse the greater Chinese ones. No straw man involved.
- yesenadam 9y ago
  "Criticizing the history of the United States is fine, but it's not even in the same universe regarding human rights abuses." I thought this was an outrageous remark, and felt compelled to object. But you say that's deflecting from a vast oppressive machine. Criticizing an easy target. Trying to cast the US as the world's "bad guy". No-one said you called the US perfect. No-one said US atrocities excuse Chinese ones. I guess if by definition you say Chinese ones are greater, and I guess they are one of the "truly evil" countries you referred to, there's not much can be said to you. The US merely has done evil things - other countries actually are truly evil. I guess it's natural for humans to think that way about their own group, but still, it bears reflecting on, that each group thinks that way about itself and others. Whole countries have disappeared in the 20th C when they say they want to do things their own way, not the way the US wants - not just individuals. But it seems you don't see that. "Trying to cast the US as the world's "bad guy" isn't brave or controversial, it just gives cover to the truly evil nations committing ongoing genocide." There are a number of interesting things going on in that sentence. It's so thick with what seem to me labels, ad hominem dismissals, false assumptions, straw men etc that it's impossible for you to hear what is said to you on this subject. You said criticism is fine but keep coming up with reasons why it's not. This has been interesting for me, thanks. Anyway, I'm still wondering - are you only interested in what the total number of US killings has been, or only what it isn't? What's your estimate of the total? You are obviously better informed than me on the subject, or at least think you are, having told me to read more about it. I repeat: What's your estimate of the total number of US killings?