3 ms·

i mean... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system imagine being an illegal immigrant in your own country because

by xor1 9y ago

i mean... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system imagine being an illegal immigrant in your own country because you aren't legally allowed to live in major cities

dis-sys 9y ago
Oh, that is interesting. You mean it is illegal for me to live/work in other Chinese cities? The problem is several members of immediate family have been doing that for 20 years, e.g, my parents, are they going to be detained soon?
- xor1 9y ago
  why do you think that I'm talking about you? the phrasing of my post even says "imagine", indicating that I'm assuming it doesn't apply to you. imagine yourself as someone who wasn't lucky enough to be born into the "right" citizenship furthermore, you're describing urban-to-urban movement in your post for some reason...you're either being very disingenuous in that regard because the main issue with the hukou system is that it blocks rural-to-urban, or i know more about it than you do...
fspeech 9y ago
Yes the hukou system is a shame, but even with the hukou system check out the population growth in Beijing: http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/beijing-population/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/beijing-popula... China has done some work to soften the system a little and there have been recurrent talks of abolishing it altogether. Hopefully it goes into the dustbin of history one day.
- xor1 9y ago
  i can understand why it's necessary, but that doesn't mean that it's not oppressive
  - morsch 9y ago
    Are you taking about intra- or international migration?
    - xor1 9y ago
      intra-migration, specifically rural to urban (not urban to urban or rural to rural)
qiqing 9y ago
Actually, I think you misunderstand how the Hukou system works. You're allowed to physically go anywhere and visit as a tourist. It's just that if you want to to permanently move to another city, you have to do a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork. In reality, people move around all the time, but it's rate-limited, and it's easier to go from a dense place to a less dense place. As a point of comparison, consider the housing crisis in San Francisco. One could facetiously argue that political forces limiting the housing supply creates a similar effect.
- xor1 9y ago
  >You're allowed to physically go anywhere and visit as a tourist. It's just that if you want to to permanently move to another city, you have to do a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork. what about moving from a rural town to to a major city permanently? or even just being able to legally work in a major city as someone who isnt able to get the proper clearance? if im misunderstanding, please educate me
  - azurezyq 9y ago
    It's legal to live and work there and tens of millions of people are doing that. The restrictions are on some interesting aspects, like real estates purchases, college entrance exam for children, social security stuffs. Hukou is evil, just not the kind of evil you are thinking about.
  - kurthr 9y ago
    With some=lots of paperwork, yes you can move. However, except for marrying or (sometimes) after graduation from college, you are not allowed to change your Hukou. Many (most?) of the people living and working in the 'supercites' of Shenzhen, Shanghai, Chongqing, and Beijing do not have Hukou residency. Even being born there does not confer the right, if your parents do not have residency. Lack of Hukou prevents purchase of real-estate, and high-school education for children, but for the last 2 years it has been possible to get state healthcare. This leads to much higher costs of living which prevents the poor from moving to the cities en masse.
rqs 9y ago
Well, Hukou is not good, but clearly you know little about China. It's about time to paste this guy's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza
- xor1 9y ago
  why not tell me what i'm wrong about instead?
  - rqs 9y ago
    But why should I pay my time to do that while someone else already made a bunch of answers better than mine? If you seriously interested about the question you just asked, take your time, watch those videos. Hukou covered in one of them, among visa policy if my memory is correct.

by xor1 9y ago

dis-sys 9y ago

Oh, that is interesting. You mean it is illegal for me to live/work in other Chinese cities? The problem is several members of immediate family have been doing that for 20 years, e.g, my parents, are they going to be detained soon?

xor1 9y ago
why do you think that I'm talking about you? the phrasing of my post even says "imagine", indicating that I'm assuming it doesn't apply to you. imagine yourself as someone who wasn't lucky enough to be born into the "right" citizenship furthermore, you're describing urban-to-urban movement in your post for some reason...you're either being very disingenuous in that regard because the main issue with the hukou system is that it blocks rural-to-urban, or i know more about it than you do...

fspeech 9y ago

Yes the hukou system is a shame, but even with the hukou system check out the population growth in Beijing: http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/beijing-population/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/beijing-popula... China has done some work to soften the system a little and there have been recurrent talks of abolishing it altogether. Hopefully it goes into the dustbin of history one day.

xor1 9y ago
i can understand why it's necessary, but that doesn't mean that it's not oppressive
- morsch 9y ago
  Are you taking about intra- or international migration?
  - xor1 9y ago
    intra-migration, specifically rural to urban (not urban to urban or rural to rural)

qiqing 9y ago

Actually, I think you misunderstand how the Hukou system works. You're allowed to physically go anywhere and visit as a tourist. It's just that if you want to to permanently move to another city, you have to do a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork. In reality, people move around all the time, but it's rate-limited, and it's easier to go from a dense place to a less dense place. As a point of comparison, consider the housing crisis in San Francisco. One could facetiously argue that political forces limiting the housing supply creates a similar effect.

xor1 9y ago
>You're allowed to physically go anywhere and visit as a tourist. It's just that if you want to to permanently move to another city, you have to do a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork. what about moving from a rural town to to a major city permanently? or even just being able to legally work in a major city as someone who isnt able to get the proper clearance? if im misunderstanding, please educate me
- azurezyq 9y ago
  It's legal to live and work there and tens of millions of people are doing that. The restrictions are on some interesting aspects, like real estates purchases, college entrance exam for children, social security stuffs. Hukou is evil, just not the kind of evil you are thinking about.
- kurthr 9y ago
  With some=lots of paperwork, yes you can move. However, except for marrying or (sometimes) after graduation from college, you are not allowed to change your Hukou. Many (most?) of the people living and working in the 'supercites' of Shenzhen, Shanghai, Chongqing, and Beijing do not have Hukou residency. Even being born there does not confer the right, if your parents do not have residency. Lack of Hukou prevents purchase of real-estate, and high-school education for children, but for the last 2 years it has been possible to get state healthcare. This leads to much higher costs of living which prevents the poor from moving to the cities en masse.

rqs 9y ago

Well, Hukou is not good, but clearly you know little about China. It's about time to paste this guy's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza

xor1 9y ago
why not tell me what i'm wrong about instead?
- rqs 9y ago
  But why should I pay my time to do that while someone else already made a bunch of answers better than mine? If you seriously interested about the question you just asked, take your time, watch those videos. Hukou covered in one of them, among visa policy if my memory is correct.