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> If you feel threatened by the idea of a China that is economically globally dominated, I would honestly like to hear your explanation. Do you not see those a

> If you feel threatened by the idea of a China that is economically globally dominated, I would honestly like to hear your explanation. Do you not see those articles where China build artificial islands and try to enforce the China seas as if they own all of it? They bully everybody, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan, etc.. They're doing this because of the oil in the area and to exert dominance. USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business. If you lock that area like China is doing USA can't really profit. I think in general I rather have USA ideology over China bullying.

zhte415 9y ago
> They're doing this because of the oil in the area and to exert dominance. USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business. If you lock that area like China is doing USA can't really profit. It because of a fear of missing resources that may be scarce and invaluable. Not just oil, fish too, and access to shipping lanes. This is not incompatible with US interests.
andybak 9y ago
On a phone right now so can't write a long reply but you need to read up on some of the history around US corporate colonialism. Try looking at the origin of the phrase "Banana Republic" or the history of pre-Castro Cuba.
legulere 9y ago
The articles about the South China Sea always make me curious because all the countries are involved in claiming non-islands. China is simply late to the party and is making similar claims than the other countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_So... Quarrels about borders exist also in democratic countries, the only difference is that there good diplomatic ties are usually seen as more important.
- intended 9y ago
  A better analogy would be that there’s an argument on land between various farming households. China is now using heavy machinery to change the flow of the river which served as the naturally boundary and saying “see, this ALL used to be mine.” China also patently doesn’t give a crap about equal countries or cultural issues - they want and need to be the top, and so that’s what they are going to Do.
landryraccoon 9y ago
> Do you not see those articles where China build artificial islands and try to enforce the China seas as if they own all of it? They bully everybody, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan, etc.. I am an American, but the USA is not exactly a paragon of non-interventionalism. The US has had a far more aggressive and interventionalist foreign policy over the past century than China. I think that America would serve not only the global order but it's own citizens far better by offering a more standoffish, less aggressive foreign policy. That would also go a long way if you want to take the high road with other countries on being too aggressive with their neighbors.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  China has not been able to project power over the last century, so of course the US is going to have been more interventionist. Even today the Chinese navy only has one relatively small, foreign made aircraft carrier. Compare that to the US navy in the 1940s; maybe the only thing that allowed China to continue to exist as a sovereign nation.
  - zipwitch 9y ago
    They launched their first domestically built carrier last April. (Technically, it hasn't completed what we'd call sea trials and commissioning.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/world/asia/china-aircraft-carrier.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/world/asia/china-aircraft...
  - sho 9y ago
    > the Chinese navy only has one relatively small, foreign made aircraft carrier You know what's better than aircraft carriers? An island!
  - ageofwant 9y ago
    If China decides to build 10 Ford class carriers today, they will have 10 in 5 years time. And there is nothing that anyone can do about that.
cptskippy 9y ago
> USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business. So long as you're working in the interest of US Businesses that is. Just ask the South American Democracies about the benevolent USA taking care of them. I think people are just more comfortable with the enemy they know.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
user982 9y ago
> They're doing this because of the oil in the area and to exert dominance. USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business...I think in general I rather have USA ideology over China bullying. When the United States wants an island and its surrounding territory, it doesn't build a new one. It takes over an existing island and depopulates it by force. Diego Garcia was located far away from any potential threats, it was low in a native population and it was an island that was not sought after by other countries as it lacked economic interest...Diego Garcia and other acquired islands would play a key role in maintaining US dominance. The Chagossians had to be removed from the island before the base could be constructed. In 1968, the first tactics were implemented to decrease the population of Diego Garcia. Those who left the island—either for vacation or medical purposes—were not allowed to return, and those who stayed could obtain only restricted food and medical supplies. This tactic was in hope that those that stayed would leave "willingly". One of the tactics used was that of the killings of Chagossian pets. Dogs were carried into sheds where they were gassed in front of their owners.[1] The island now houses a US military base (née "Camp Justice") used as a black site torture facility and banned munitions depot. The former inhabitants live in poverty and exile, the US and UK having recently declared the area a sham marine reserve specifically with the secret intent of preventing their return. But that's fine, because the USA just wants everybody to be okay. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia
- semperdark 9y ago
  If you want to talk about 1968, we can talk about the mass purges going on in China too. Criticizing the history of the United States is fine, but it's not even in the same universe regarding human rights abuses. China continues to purge and "disappear" people, so I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about 2017.
  - user982 9y ago
    The "extraordinary rendition" international kidnapping program that literally disappeared people and was facilitated by Diego Garcia began in 2001. The "Chagos Marine Protected Area" which was internally praised as "the most effective long-term way to prevent any of the Chagos Islands' former inhabitants or their descendants from resettling"[1] was established in 2010. But that's fine, that's clearly ancient history. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Marine_Protected_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Marine_Protected_Area
sho 9y ago
> They're doing this because of the oil in the area It's not really about the oil, if it does exist. It's about control of their eastern border and access to the pacific ocean, especially in the context of all the neighbouring countries being US allies and potentially being usable by the US in the case of a conflict. Simply put, if China doesn't control the South China Sea, then they can be blockaded. If they control it, then they can't. Sea access is incredibly important - for military, economic, food and energy security. Their actions in the SCS are a no-brainer from their perspective and the only surprising thing is why it took them so long.
fsloth 9y ago
United States bullies enough. Generally US agents target organizations. Three letter agencies support industrial espionage and black hat business tactics. For example: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-5149981 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-5149981 US operates for it's own benefit. Just like everyone else. The real life is not a Hollywood movie with good guys and bad. In real life, everybody wants to improve their status, and those that don't, sink.

zhte415 9y ago

> They're doing this because of the oil in the area and to exert dominance. USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business. If you lock that area like China is doing USA can't really profit. It because of a fear of missing resources that may be scarce and invaluable. Not just oil, fish too, and access to shipping lanes. This is not incompatible with US interests.

andybak 9y ago

On a phone right now so can't write a long reply but you need to read up on some of the history around US corporate colonialism. Try looking at the origin of the phrase "Banana Republic" or the history of pre-Castro Cuba.

legulere 9y ago

The articles about the South China Sea always make me curious because all the countries are involved in claiming non-islands. China is simply late to the party and is making similar claims than the other countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_So... Quarrels about borders exist also in democratic countries, the only difference is that there good diplomatic ties are usually seen as more important.

intended 9y ago
A better analogy would be that there’s an argument on land between various farming households. China is now using heavy machinery to change the flow of the river which served as the naturally boundary and saying “see, this ALL used to be mine.” China also patently doesn’t give a crap about equal countries or cultural issues - they want and need to be the top, and so that’s what they are going to Do.

landryraccoon 9y ago

> Do you not see those articles where China build artificial islands and try to enforce the China seas as if they own all of it? They bully everybody, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan, etc.. I am an American, but the USA is not exactly a paragon of non-interventionalism. The US has had a far more aggressive and interventionalist foreign policy over the past century than China. I think that America would serve not only the global order but it's own citizens far better by offering a more standoffish, less aggressive foreign policy. That would also go a long way if you want to take the high road with other countries on being too aggressive with their neighbors.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
aaron-lebo 9y ago
China has not been able to project power over the last century, so of course the US is going to have been more interventionist. Even today the Chinese navy only has one relatively small, foreign made aircraft carrier. Compare that to the US navy in the 1940s; maybe the only thing that allowed China to continue to exist as a sovereign nation.
- zipwitch 9y ago
  They launched their first domestically built carrier last April. (Technically, it hasn't completed what we'd call sea trials and commissioning.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/world/asia/china-aircraft-carrier.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/world/asia/china-aircraft...
- sho 9y ago
  > the Chinese navy only has one relatively small, foreign made aircraft carrier You know what's better than aircraft carriers? An island!
- ageofwant 9y ago
  If China decides to build 10 Ford class carriers today, they will have 10 in 5 years time. And there is nothing that anyone can do about that.

cptskippy 9y ago

> USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business. So long as you're working in the interest of US Businesses that is. Just ask the South American Democracies about the benevolent USA taking care of them. I think people are just more comfortable with the enemy they know.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

user982 9y ago

> They're doing this because of the oil in the area and to exert dominance. USA on the other way just want everybody to be okay cause you know USA is all about money and business...I think in general I rather have USA ideology over China bullying. When the United States wants an island and its surrounding territory, it doesn't build a new one. It takes over an existing island and depopulates it by force. Diego Garcia was located far away from any potential threats, it was low in a native population and it was an island that was not sought after by other countries as it lacked economic interest...Diego Garcia and other acquired islands would play a key role in maintaining US dominance. The Chagossians had to be removed from the island before the base could be constructed. In 1968, the first tactics were implemented to decrease the population of Diego Garcia. Those who left the island—either for vacation or medical purposes—were not allowed to return, and those who stayed could obtain only restricted food and medical supplies. This tactic was in hope that those that stayed would leave "willingly". One of the tactics used was that of the killings of Chagossian pets. Dogs were carried into sheds where they were gassed in front of their owners.[1] The island now houses a US military base (née "Camp Justice") used as a black site torture facility and banned munitions depot. The former inhabitants live in poverty and exile, the US and UK having recently declared the area a sham marine reserve specifically with the secret intent of preventing their return. But that's fine, because the USA just wants everybody to be okay. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia

semperdark 9y ago
If you want to talk about 1968, we can talk about the mass purges going on in China too. Criticizing the history of the United States is fine, but it's not even in the same universe regarding human rights abuses. China continues to purge and "disappear" people, so I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about 2017.
- user982 9y ago
  The "extraordinary rendition" international kidnapping program that literally disappeared people and was facilitated by Diego Garcia began in 2001. The "Chagos Marine Protected Area" which was internally praised as "the most effective long-term way to prevent any of the Chagos Islands' former inhabitants or their descendants from resettling"[1] was established in 2010. But that's fine, that's clearly ancient history. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Marine_Protected_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Marine_Protected_Area

sho 9y ago

> They're doing this because of the oil in the area It's not really about the oil, if it does exist. It's about control of their eastern border and access to the pacific ocean, especially in the context of all the neighbouring countries being US allies and potentially being usable by the US in the case of a conflict. Simply put, if China doesn't control the South China Sea, then they can be blockaded. If they control it, then they can't. Sea access is incredibly important - for military, economic, food and energy security. Their actions in the SCS are a no-brainer from their perspective and the only surprising thing is why it took them so long.

fsloth 9y ago

United States bullies enough. Generally US agents target organizations. Three letter agencies support industrial espionage and black hat business tactics. For example: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-5149981 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-5149981 US operates for it's own benefit. Just like everyone else. The real life is not a Hollywood movie with good guys and bad. In real life, everybody wants to improve their status, and those that don't, sink.