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How did Seattle get more people to ride the bus? 1. They made coummuting by car miserable. Average commute time for Everett to Seattle (24 miles) is 76 minutes

How did Seattle get more people to ride the bus? 1. They made coummuting by car miserable. Average commute time for Everett to Seattle (24 miles) is 76 minutes, Federal Way to Seattle (22 miles) is 66 minutes... Reducing congestion is not a goal of WA DOT. 2. They make driving really expensive. $30 car tabs that cost hundreds (if not thousands) and one of the highest gas taxes in the nation. 3. They subsidize the heck out of it. Bus fares cover less than 1/3 the cost of operating the bus. Ironically, if it weren't for all the cars the buses couldn't afford to operate. For every driver that switches to buses cost go up and revenue goes down. Maybe this is fine, but I don't think it should be ingored. This article seemed to praise Seattle and Metro but the area is always ranked as one of the worst traffic areas in the nation. If it is working so well, why is it so bad? Is there something Seattle or King County Metro has done well that makes people want to use it? Does it smell nice, is it quiet, are the drivers really friendly, do they offer good coffee..? Or is mass transit around here "good" compared to all the other bad options. One thing that is not transit's fault that makes traffic bad around here- Seattle area is filled with some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. Born and raised here so I think I am allowed to criticize, we collectively suck at driving!

techsupporter 9y ago
Commuting from Everett to Seattle via single-occupant car has taken forever since the turn of the century. 405 and I5 simply don't have the space for all of those cars. That's what transit does: it provides an alternative--primarily through the use of HOV/HOT lanes--to slogging along in your own car. Also, on those car tabs, voters approved them ourselves. Every single transit-related charge on your vehicle registration was approved by a measure put in front of voters. (Same for sales tax.) I disagree strongly with our legislature's predilection for punting hard tax issuers to voters but if you're gonna blame anybody, you've only the voting public to blame. (Full disclosure: I've voted "yes" on every single transit tax measure--except for the monorail--I've ever seen.) Oh, and on farebox recovery: very, very few transit systems recover their cost of operation. In the United States, only the Las Vegas Monorail recovers 100% of its costs. The only widely-used system that comes close is San Francisco's BART at 71%. (All figures courtesy Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio) It may come as a surprise to you, but vehicle owners don't directly pay the cost for the roads they drive upon, either. The motor vehicle fuel tax basically pays for the Washington State highway system (including part of the Washington State Ferries...which also has approximately a 70% farebox recovery ratio[0]). County and local general fund taxes pay for local roads, including basically every road you drive on inside a municipality. This is the same for transit. County and city taxes pay for the bulk of the service and fares and grants cover the rest. Oh, and public transit taxes in Washington State are almost universally put in front of the voters because the legislature won't let transit agencies impose taxes on their own authority. Road and fuel taxes? Pfft, those are somehow different and they get imposed by the legislature with no vote. I want the legislature and our representatives to handle taxation and spending; that's why we elect them. But this double standard of approval-required-for-transit-but-not-for-roads is galling. 0 - http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/A72D0350-674E-4D50-8483-109EC26B8F3F/0/FY2016ROUTESTATEMENTS.pdf http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/A72D0350-674E-4D50-8483...
- bensonn 9y ago
  At the turn of the century HOV lanes were rare (1 on I-5, 0 on 16) and Sound Transit was almost non-existent (sure they were there but they just quietly taxed us and nobody really saw them and no light rail around here. At the turn of the century I didn't dread going anywhere near downtown or the airport. At the turn of the century it took 30 minutes to go the 30 miles door to door from Tacoma to Auburn. By 2010 it took 45 minutes to try and meet somebody half way. That is why I quit meeting my friend to play tennis after work, which is why I got fat. Thanks mass transit for making me fat. Only tolls really pay directly for the roads- and now more and more tolls are being charged, in addition to the other taxes and fees. I agree we (not me) voted for $30 tabs, many times and never saw them. And yes we (not me) voted for the new Sound Transit. Since we did pass the last one I actually stand behind it, if we sold bonds based on the taxes we have to pay them now. "I want the legislature and our representatives to handle taxation and spending; that's why we elect them." -Agree with you there! I am perfectly fine having transit subsidized. The transit agencies love to adverties what a bargain it is and many of the comments mentioned how much they use the bus. My only point is transparency. If the true, unsubsidized fare were charged would people still ride? Would it still seem like a good deal? Would it still seem like the best plan? I often don't care if it is left or right, red or blue- just if it works. Seattle seems to be a shade of blue that doesn't work well, at least in transportation. Something Seattle and King County are doing, or not doing, is failing miserably and keeps getting worse. We keep giving the transit agencies with more and more money and they keep delivering more and more congestion. This is the commonly accepted relationship we have with them, the cycle will only continue until something gives. I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle bans cars soon, except for the rich and government employees of course.
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    "My only point is transparency. If the true, unsubsidized fare were charged would people still ride? Would it still seem like a good deal? Would it still seem like the best plan?" Do you pay tolls for all the roads you use? Do you pay to park at the store? Do you pay for other's care for their emphezama? Will you buy their flooded house? Do you pay for the funerals of dead walkers and cyclists? Will you pay for new habitat for the wildlife displaced by roads?
CalRobert 9y ago
In a well designed city 24 miles is a ridiculous commute. How much of your drive is through a) the middle of nowhere or b) land itself dedicated to automobiles? Unfortunately, if you haven't lived in a well-designed city it's hard to truly understand the lunacy of US urban "design". Cities there are as though they were built for 100 foot tall collosi, with everything spread insanely far apart. Of course, the collosi in question are cars, and in serving cars we made them a necessity, while destroying places that actually served humans.
kwhitefoot 9y ago
> For every driver that switches to buses cost go up and revenue goes down. How does that work? Surely the marginal cost of an extra passenger is less than the total cost divided by the number of passengers? Not only that but if the bus is not already full one more passenger is very nearly pure profit. I'm genuinely curious.

techsupporter 9y ago

Commuting from Everett to Seattle via single-occupant car has taken forever since the turn of the century. 405 and I5 simply don't have the space for all of those cars. That's what transit does: it provides an alternative--primarily through the use of HOV/HOT lanes--to slogging along in your own car. Also, on those car tabs, voters approved them ourselves. Every single transit-related charge on your vehicle registration was approved by a measure put in front of voters. (Same for sales tax.) I disagree strongly with our legislature's predilection for punting hard tax issuers to voters but if you're gonna blame anybody, you've only the voting public to blame. (Full disclosure: I've voted "yes" on every single transit tax measure--except for the monorail--I've ever seen.) Oh, and on farebox recovery: very, very few transit systems recover their cost of operation. In the United States, only the Las Vegas Monorail recovers 100% of its costs. The only widely-used system that comes close is San Francisco's BART at 71%. (All figures courtesy Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio) It may come as a surprise to you, but vehicle owners don't directly pay the cost for the roads they drive upon, either. The motor vehicle fuel tax basically pays for the Washington State highway system (including part of the Washington State Ferries...which also has approximately a 70% farebox recovery ratio[0]). County and local general fund taxes pay for local roads, including basically every road you drive on inside a municipality. This is the same for transit. County and city taxes pay for the bulk of the service and fares and grants cover the rest. Oh, and public transit taxes in Washington State are almost universally put in front of the voters because the legislature won't let transit agencies impose taxes on their own authority. Road and fuel taxes? Pfft, those are somehow different and they get imposed by the legislature with no vote. I want the legislature and our representatives to handle taxation and spending; that's why we elect them. But this double standard of approval-required-for-transit-but-not-for-roads is galling. 0 - http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/A72D0350-674E-4D50-8483-109EC26B8F3F/0/FY2016ROUTESTATEMENTS.pdf http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/A72D0350-674E-4D50-8483...

bensonn 9y ago
At the turn of the century HOV lanes were rare (1 on I-5, 0 on 16) and Sound Transit was almost non-existent (sure they were there but they just quietly taxed us and nobody really saw them and no light rail around here. At the turn of the century I didn't dread going anywhere near downtown or the airport. At the turn of the century it took 30 minutes to go the 30 miles door to door from Tacoma to Auburn. By 2010 it took 45 minutes to try and meet somebody half way. That is why I quit meeting my friend to play tennis after work, which is why I got fat. Thanks mass transit for making me fat. Only tolls really pay directly for the roads- and now more and more tolls are being charged, in addition to the other taxes and fees. I agree we (not me) voted for $30 tabs, many times and never saw them. And yes we (not me) voted for the new Sound Transit. Since we did pass the last one I actually stand behind it, if we sold bonds based on the taxes we have to pay them now. "I want the legislature and our representatives to handle taxation and spending; that's why we elect them." -Agree with you there! I am perfectly fine having transit subsidized. The transit agencies love to adverties what a bargain it is and many of the comments mentioned how much they use the bus. My only point is transparency. If the true, unsubsidized fare were charged would people still ride? Would it still seem like a good deal? Would it still seem like the best plan? I often don't care if it is left or right, red or blue- just if it works. Seattle seems to be a shade of blue that doesn't work well, at least in transportation. Something Seattle and King County are doing, or not doing, is failing miserably and keeps getting worse. We keep giving the transit agencies with more and more money and they keep delivering more and more congestion. This is the commonly accepted relationship we have with them, the cycle will only continue until something gives. I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle bans cars soon, except for the rich and government employees of course.
- CalRobert 9y ago
  "My only point is transparency. If the true, unsubsidized fare were charged would people still ride? Would it still seem like a good deal? Would it still seem like the best plan?" Do you pay tolls for all the roads you use? Do you pay to park at the store? Do you pay for other's care for their emphezama? Will you buy their flooded house? Do you pay for the funerals of dead walkers and cyclists? Will you pay for new habitat for the wildlife displaced by roads?

CalRobert 9y ago

In a well designed city 24 miles is a ridiculous commute. How much of your drive is through a) the middle of nowhere or b) land itself dedicated to automobiles? Unfortunately, if you haven't lived in a well-designed city it's hard to truly understand the lunacy of US urban "design". Cities there are as though they were built for 100 foot tall collosi, with everything spread insanely far apart. Of course, the collosi in question are cars, and in serving cars we made them a necessity, while destroying places that actually served humans.

kwhitefoot 9y ago

> For every driver that switches to buses cost go up and revenue goes down. How does that work? Surely the marginal cost of an extra passenger is less than the total cost divided by the number of passengers? Not only that but if the bus is not already full one more passenger is very nearly pure profit. I'm genuinely curious.