5 ms·

Hmmm. It depends on the power, frequencies and distance to tissue. I remember a coworker at a GPS mfgr accidentially turned on a 440 MHz radio in high-power (25

Hmmm. It depends on the power, frequencies and distance to tissue. I remember a coworker at a GPS mfgr accidentially turned on a 440 MHz radio in high-power (25W) mode with only a whip antenna and received a nasty radio burn when he pointlessly/accidentally put his hand around it. That radio burn looked similar to a sunburn or maybe 20 seconds in the microwave. Increased risk of cancer, for sure. A fraction of a Watt every now and then might be okay, as long as it’s not bursting at multiple Watts or near the resonant frequencies of purine or water.

pavement 9y ago
Consider multiple transmitters operating at the same time, in the same room. Even if no signal transmitter is dumping high output into that part of the spectrum, isn’t bandwidth saturation one of the reasons for poor reception and lower bars? Would that not provide bonuses to absorbed effective wattage? There’s probably some constructive interference producing fortuitous signals, no?
- robbiep 9y ago
  When it comes to interference with DNA, it is wavelength not wattage that is important.
  - thesz 9y ago
    In theory, yes. In practice, wattage can disrupt tissue around, introducing radicals, etc. Dirupting DNA in the end.
    - robbiep 9y ago
      The best reply to this is that we both generate a lot of radiant energy and are exposed to a lot of radiant energy in the form of sun, orders of magnitude stronger than the transmitters in our phone. The intensities the mechanism demands are neither likely or possible for everyday use
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    This is what I've always believed, but I stumbled upon this a minute ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization#Multi-photon_ionization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization#Multi-photon_i... Apparently, at least using some deep laser science magic, you can make photons' energy additive with respect to ionization process. Anyone here who knows the science behind this, and could shine the light on whether or not this thing has any impact on day-to-day interactions with RF radiation?
XorNot 9y ago
Yeah no. Burning yourself on a hot stove does not increase your risk of cancer and that's the same thing which happened to your coworker.
- dwk 9y ago
  A quick Google search for "burns and cancer" suggests that there may indeed be a relationship between kitchen burns and cancer. One such result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11957286 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11957286 > Abstract > Burns are very frequent. Skin cancer on burns scars are one of the known complications....
  - XorNot 9y ago
    Interesting - I didn't know that. But the parent was pretty obviously making the association between forms of damage which definitely increase cancer risk (sunburn) and non-ionizing radiation - which does not. The type of burn he observed is thermal. So even if thermal damage (or just damage in general) can increase cancer risk a little...it's not remotely the same thing as sunburn or gamma radiation, and as it pertains to cellphones completely irrelevant (because a cellphone is not a 40W antenna emitter).
- t0mbstone 9y ago
  Any time you damage any part of your body, that tissue has to repair itself. There is always a chance (albeit small) of things not repairing themselves correctly and the DNA getting corrupted. Every time the same tissue has to repair itself, the odds of DNA corruption occurring increase. This is why cancer tends to manifest in areas of the body which are chronically damaged and repaired (such as an alcoholic's liver, or the esophagus of someone who has chronic heartburn, or the lungs of someone who smokes). As such, it stands to reason that any type of burn (causing tissue damage) could ultimately lead to cancer. Or at least that's my current understanding.
slackingoff2017 9y ago
I thought microwaves weren't high enough in the spectrum to disrupt DNA which is the main cause of cancer risk for gamma/x-ray? Individual waves don't have the energy to break bonds even for relatively high power transmitters, at least that's what I've been told. I'm not a comms engineer but I've also been told the biggest risk microwave exposure is thermal burns. Especially to the eyes which have limited cooling ability and pain receptors
13of40 9y ago
> or maybe 20 seconds in the microwave I'm curious to know the circumstances if you know what a skin burn from 20 seconds in a microwave looks like.
- tonmoy 9y ago
  Maybe from cooking meat?
  - gambiting 9y ago
    People actually cook things in microwaves? As in - they go from raw product to a cooked product? I've only ever used and only ever saw microwaves bring used for warming up meals, never for actual cooking.
    - grecy 9y ago
      Checkout the buttons on the front - many have settings for cooking chicken, beef, etc. Absolutely you can "cook" things in microwaves, people do it all the time.
      - gambiting 9y ago
        What buttons? Pretty much every microwave I've ever seen looks like this[0] - timer + power setting. Even our kitchen at work which has some really fancy microwaves only offers time + power, nothing else. The ones full of buttons on the front are from like....American movies, not something I ever see in real life :P [0] https://asda.scene7.com/is/image/Asda/5054781247296?hei=532&wid=910&qlt=85&fmt=pjpg&resmode=sharp&op_usm=1.1,0.5,0,0&defaultimage=default_details_George_rd https://asda.scene7.com/is/image/Asda/5054781247296?hei=532&...
        grecy 9y ago
        Most I have seen look like this https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+buttons&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+buttons&source=lnm...
TeMPOraL 9y ago
RF burns are thermal burns, but of the weirder kind. They don't heal as nicely as regular burns. That said, getting an RF burn off an active radio element is like getting a regular burn because you've put your hand around an incandescent lightbulb. It's your fault, and it doesn't imply lightbulbs are a health danger, as in both cases the energy received diminishes by the square of your distance from the source.

pavement 9y ago

Consider multiple transmitters operating at the same time, in the same room. Even if no signal transmitter is dumping high output into that part of the spectrum, isn’t bandwidth saturation one of the reasons for poor reception and lower bars? Would that not provide bonuses to absorbed effective wattage? There’s probably some constructive interference producing fortuitous signals, no?

robbiep 9y ago
When it comes to interference with DNA, it is wavelength not wattage that is important.
- thesz 9y ago
  In theory, yes. In practice, wattage can disrupt tissue around, introducing radicals, etc. Dirupting DNA in the end.
  - robbiep 9y ago
    The best reply to this is that we both generate a lot of radiant energy and are exposed to a lot of radiant energy in the form of sun, orders of magnitude stronger than the transmitters in our phone. The intensities the mechanism demands are neither likely or possible for everyday use
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  This is what I've always believed, but I stumbled upon this a minute ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization#Multi-photon_ionization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization#Multi-photon_i... Apparently, at least using some deep laser science magic, you can make photons' energy additive with respect to ionization process. Anyone here who knows the science behind this, and could shine the light on whether or not this thing has any impact on day-to-day interactions with RF radiation?

XorNot 9y ago

Yeah no. Burning yourself on a hot stove does not increase your risk of cancer and that's the same thing which happened to your coworker.

dwk 9y ago
A quick Google search for "burns and cancer" suggests that there may indeed be a relationship between kitchen burns and cancer. One such result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11957286 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11957286 > Abstract > Burns are very frequent. Skin cancer on burns scars are one of the known complications....
- XorNot 9y ago
  Interesting - I didn't know that. But the parent was pretty obviously making the association between forms of damage which definitely increase cancer risk (sunburn) and non-ionizing radiation - which does not. The type of burn he observed is thermal. So even if thermal damage (or just damage in general) can increase cancer risk a little...it's not remotely the same thing as sunburn or gamma radiation, and as it pertains to cellphones completely irrelevant (because a cellphone is not a 40W antenna emitter).
t0mbstone 9y ago
Any time you damage any part of your body, that tissue has to repair itself. There is always a chance (albeit small) of things not repairing themselves correctly and the DNA getting corrupted. Every time the same tissue has to repair itself, the odds of DNA corruption occurring increase. This is why cancer tends to manifest in areas of the body which are chronically damaged and repaired (such as an alcoholic's liver, or the esophagus of someone who has chronic heartburn, or the lungs of someone who smokes). As such, it stands to reason that any type of burn (causing tissue damage) could ultimately lead to cancer. Or at least that's my current understanding.

slackingoff2017 9y ago

I thought microwaves weren't high enough in the spectrum to disrupt DNA which is the main cause of cancer risk for gamma/x-ray? Individual waves don't have the energy to break bonds even for relatively high power transmitters, at least that's what I've been told. I'm not a comms engineer but I've also been told the biggest risk microwave exposure is thermal burns. Especially to the eyes which have limited cooling ability and pain receptors

13of40 9y ago

> or maybe 20 seconds in the microwave I'm curious to know the circumstances if you know what a skin burn from 20 seconds in a microwave looks like.

tonmoy 9y ago
Maybe from cooking meat?
- gambiting 9y ago
  People actually cook things in microwaves? As in - they go from raw product to a cooked product? I've only ever used and only ever saw microwaves bring used for warming up meals, never for actual cooking.
  - grecy 9y ago
    Checkout the buttons on the front - many have settings for cooking chicken, beef, etc. Absolutely you can "cook" things in microwaves, people do it all the time.
    - gambiting 9y ago
      What buttons? Pretty much every microwave I've ever seen looks like this[0] - timer + power setting. Even our kitchen at work which has some really fancy microwaves only offers time + power, nothing else. The ones full of buttons on the front are from like....American movies, not something I ever see in real life :P [0] https://asda.scene7.com/is/image/Asda/5054781247296?hei=532&wid=910&qlt=85&fmt=pjpg&resmode=sharp&op_usm=1.1,0.5,0,0&defaultimage=default_details_George_rd https://asda.scene7.com/is/image/Asda/5054781247296?hei=532&...
      - grecy 9y ago
        Most I have seen look like this https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+buttons&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+buttons&source=lnm...

TeMPOraL 9y ago

RF burns are thermal burns, but of the weirder kind. They don't heal as nicely as regular burns. That said, getting an RF burn off an active radio element is like getting a regular burn because you've put your hand around an incandescent lightbulb. It's your fault, and it doesn't imply lightbulbs are a health danger, as in both cases the energy received diminishes by the square of your distance from the source.