8 ms·

The European Union leaders ain't turning a blind eye, they have showed their express support to the Spanish government, and to the rule of law.

syshum 9y ago
>>and to the rule of law. I have always found it fascinating how strongly people believe "the rule of law" to be the ethical and correct position. To uphold the rule of law no matter what. That the rule of law itself if the goal. No matter what those laws are, no matter if those laws are unethical, immoral, unjust. The rule of law itself is the goal. Not a moral society, not a just society, not a ethical society, but a society of law. Why? Almost every major atrocity in human history was legal under the laws governing the geographic zone they were committed in so why is there such strong support for this concept of "Rule of law"
- notspanishflu 9y ago
  Again, we're talking about the rule of law in democratic societies, not totalitarian ones. I don't know the source of your fascination if you don't understand that.
  - syshum 9y ago
    You believe no atrocities have ever been legal under a democratic society? Really? I suggest you study more history if you believe that Along with the rule of law I am fascinated by the difference people give to "democratic" society, as if that is the best, or some how perfect
    - notspanishflu 9y ago
      When you state something like that, you must show us some sources.
      - syshum 9y ago
        I dotn know how about some big ones 1. Slavery 2. Trail of Tears / Native American Reservations 3. Japanese internment camps Those are 3 from just American History that everyone should agree on, Then there are others from other Democracies, plus things that happen in War Time in like Vietnam, I could compile I huge list, the idea that democracies are some how pure as the driven snow free from any unethical or immoral action is so wrong I question how anyone to could believe that
        foldr 9y ago
        Slavery is a bit of a stretch. There were many restrictions on who was able to vote when slavery was legal in the US. (Most obviously, slaves couldn't vote, but women and many white men were also unable to.)
        syshum 9y ago
        It is not a stretch at all, The fact that "There were many restrictions" has no bearing on the conversation. You are simply grasping at straws to defend the "golden standard" for Authoritarian Government... democracy. where all unethical actions can be justified as long as the "majority" agrees As you can tell I am no fan of democracy, and believe people that refuse to acknowledge massive ethical problems with democracy treat it almost like a religion, replacing the traditional Omnipotent God with "will of the majority"
        foldr 9y ago
        It's a stretch to define a country as a democray when far less than 50% of the adult population could vote.
        justin66 9y ago
        I suggest you look up the etymology of "democracy" and open a few history books - any that have been written in the English language, at any time - if you think that's a stretch. Universal suffrage is a separate concept, and it's not necessary that a government have it in order to be considered a democracy. It's certainly how we all (one hopes) think a democracy ought to work, but that's a separate issue.
- farresito 9y ago
  That's the argument that the Spanish govt. gives all the time, so it's only normal for them to use this argument when trying to defend the govt. position to attack the Catalan people when trying to vote or when trying to justify taking control of the Catalan administration, some Catalan public TV channels, etc.
  - notspanishflu 9y ago
    Wow a democracy defending the rule of law! /s
farresito 9y ago
Make an effort to read the messages carefully, please. The parent comment said `what level of brutality the EU is willing to accept before intervening`, and by brutality I understand from the Spanish govt. side, and my answer was that they won't try to condemn this kind of brutality unless it goes physical. I never said anything about the EU not supporting Spanish's position; it makes plenty of sense, since it's in their interest to avoid Catalonia's independence.
- notspanishflu 9y ago
  I have read it carefully, thank you. Nothing changes.

syshum 9y ago

>>and to the rule of law. I have always found it fascinating how strongly people believe "the rule of law" to be the ethical and correct position. To uphold the rule of law no matter what. That the rule of law itself if the goal. No matter what those laws are, no matter if those laws are unethical, immoral, unjust. The rule of law itself is the goal. Not a moral society, not a just society, not a ethical society, but a society of law. Why? Almost every major atrocity in human history was legal under the laws governing the geographic zone they were committed in so why is there such strong support for this concept of "Rule of law"

notspanishflu 9y ago
Again, we're talking about the rule of law in democratic societies, not totalitarian ones. I don't know the source of your fascination if you don't understand that.
- syshum 9y ago
  You believe no atrocities have ever been legal under a democratic society? Really? I suggest you study more history if you believe that Along with the rule of law I am fascinated by the difference people give to "democratic" society, as if that is the best, or some how perfect
  - notspanishflu 9y ago
    When you state something like that, you must show us some sources.
    - syshum 9y ago
      I dotn know how about some big ones 1. Slavery 2. Trail of Tears / Native American Reservations 3. Japanese internment camps Those are 3 from just American History that everyone should agree on, Then there are others from other Democracies, plus things that happen in War Time in like Vietnam, I could compile I huge list, the idea that democracies are some how pure as the driven snow free from any unethical or immoral action is so wrong I question how anyone to could believe that
      - foldr 9y ago
        Slavery is a bit of a stretch. There were many restrictions on who was able to vote when slavery was legal in the US. (Most obviously, slaves couldn't vote, but women and many white men were also unable to.)
        syshum 9y ago
        It is not a stretch at all, The fact that "There were many restrictions" has no bearing on the conversation. You are simply grasping at straws to defend the "golden standard" for Authoritarian Government... democracy. where all unethical actions can be justified as long as the "majority" agrees As you can tell I am no fan of democracy, and believe people that refuse to acknowledge massive ethical problems with democracy treat it almost like a religion, replacing the traditional Omnipotent God with "will of the majority"
        foldr 9y ago
        It's a stretch to define a country as a democray when far less than 50% of the adult population could vote.
        justin66 9y ago
        I suggest you look up the etymology of "democracy" and open a few history books - any that have been written in the English language, at any time - if you think that's a stretch. Universal suffrage is a separate concept, and it's not necessary that a government have it in order to be considered a democracy. It's certainly how we all (one hopes) think a democracy ought to work, but that's a separate issue.
farresito 9y ago
That's the argument that the Spanish govt. gives all the time, so it's only normal for them to use this argument when trying to defend the govt. position to attack the Catalan people when trying to vote or when trying to justify taking control of the Catalan administration, some Catalan public TV channels, etc.
- notspanishflu 9y ago
  Wow a democracy defending the rule of law! /s

farresito 9y ago

Make an effort to read the messages carefully, please. The parent comment said `what level of brutality the EU is willing to accept before intervening`, and by brutality I understand from the Spanish govt. side, and my answer was that they won't try to condemn this kind of brutality unless it goes physical. I never said anything about the EU not supporting Spanish's position; it makes plenty of sense, since it's in their interest to avoid Catalonia's independence.

notspanishflu 9y ago
I have read it carefully, thank you. Nothing changes.