4 ms·

Spanish sovereignty resides in all Spaniards, not just a part of them. It is in the Spanish Constitution. If secessionists lose an election, they'll keep askin

Spanish sovereignty resides in all Spaniards, not just a part of them. It is in the Spanish Constitution. If secessionists lose an election, they'll keep asking for another, and another.

ardit33 9y ago
Lol, no, it resides on the folks that live on those states. Constitutions change. (the last change was in 78, right?). Fromer Yougoslavia broke off, as the separate states wanted their own countries. Somewhere was peaceful (Slovenia), and very bloody, (the rest of the states). They are much much better off by themselves right now. Things change, and if Catalonia wants their independence they should.
- notspanishflu 9y ago
  The article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution states: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)
  - JaumeGreen 9y ago
    No one under 57 has voted on this constitution. It should be modernised.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Do you think it would matter? I don't think most of the country supports the Catalonian independence, so it would probably remain as-is on that issue.
    - notspanishflu 9y ago
      So every generation has to vote a new constitution?
      - kaffee 9y ago
        Yes. Thomas Jefferson said something along those lines. I think every generation might be a little extreme. Every other generation, certainly.
        baxtr 9y ago
        And which other country is doing this today?
        dogma1138 9y ago
        The US has been amending the constitution about once every generation or so the last amendment was in 1992.
        baxtr 9y ago
        Sure, many countries change parts of their constitution from time to time, usually through a parliament. The question was however: "So every generation has to vote a new constitution?" because earlier someone was questioning the Spanish constitution since "no one under 57 has voted on it".
        dogma1138 9y ago
        It’s the same thing. You would also want to note that many constitutions in Europe aren’t that old many were rewritten following WW2 and those which weren’t are often modified and ratified. There is no legal difference between adding or removing parts of a constitution and voting on a new one. You still need to approve a new constitution and ratify it. If you start from scratch it means that you either didn’t have a codified constitution or it was really shitty but those are pretty unique cases. I really don’t see a problem of revising a constitution once every 25-50 years.
        baxtr 9y ago
        I don’t think I follow. What is then exactly now the difference if you compare Spain with other countries?
    - 6t6t6t6 9y ago
      Also, when my parents voted for the constitution, the other option what to go back for the dictatorship. For them, not being beaten by the police for speaking Catalan, was a huge step forward in terms of human rights.
      - notspanishflu 9y ago
        So you say the options were do you want democracy or we are going to resurrect Franco? hahahahaha Nobody ever was beating for speaking Catalan. Ever.
6t6t6t6 9y ago
And the sovereignty of the government comes from the social contract. When a big part of the citizens feel that they are not represented by the government, the social contract is broken. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract The Spaniards seem to love Rajoy, as they give him the majority in every election. Rajoy's party, "Partido Popular", is voted by less than 8% of the Catalans. So, the question is, why the Catalans need to be governed by a political party, that not only rules against them, but that does not represent Catalan society? There are more than 2 million people that do not accept the government of Madrid. How will Madrid rule over all this people without transforming Spain to a full-blown dictatorship again?
- notspanishflu 9y ago
  Are you kidding? Do you know how a democracy works?
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    It works in a manner which encourages secession for regions which generally hold distinctly different political opinions than the rest of the country.
  - dang 9y ago
    You've been repeatedly violating the site guidelines by posting uncivilly, unsubstantively, using this site for political battle, and generally ruining this and other threads. We ban accounts that do that regardless of how good your cause is or how wrong someone else is. We have to, because otherwise this place will destroy itself. I'm not going to ban you because you've used HN as intended before this recent political crisis. But it's dismaying that I had to look back through hundreds of comments to determine that. I understand how emotional these topics can be, but would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not post like this to HN again?

Spanish sovereignty resides in all Spaniards, not just a part of them. It is in the Spanish Constitution. If secessionists lose an election, they'll keep asking for another, and another.

ardit33 9y ago

Lol, no, it resides on the folks that live on those states. Constitutions change. (the last change was in 78, right?). Fromer Yougoslavia broke off, as the separate states wanted their own countries. Somewhere was peaceful (Slovenia), and very bloody, (the rest of the states). They are much much better off by themselves right now. Things change, and if Catalonia wants their independence they should.

notspanishflu 9y ago
The article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution states: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)
- JaumeGreen 9y ago
  No one under 57 has voted on this constitution. It should be modernised.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Do you think it would matter? I don't think most of the country supports the Catalonian independence, so it would probably remain as-is on that issue.
  - notspanishflu 9y ago
    So every generation has to vote a new constitution?
    - kaffee 9y ago
      Yes. Thomas Jefferson said something along those lines. I think every generation might be a little extreme. Every other generation, certainly.
      - baxtr 9y ago
        And which other country is doing this today?
        dogma1138 9y ago
        The US has been amending the constitution about once every generation or so the last amendment was in 1992.
        baxtr 9y ago
        Sure, many countries change parts of their constitution from time to time, usually through a parliament. The question was however: "So every generation has to vote a new constitution?" because earlier someone was questioning the Spanish constitution since "no one under 57 has voted on it".
        dogma1138 9y ago
        It’s the same thing. You would also want to note that many constitutions in Europe aren’t that old many were rewritten following WW2 and those which weren’t are often modified and ratified. There is no legal difference between adding or removing parts of a constitution and voting on a new one. You still need to approve a new constitution and ratify it. If you start from scratch it means that you either didn’t have a codified constitution or it was really shitty but those are pretty unique cases. I really don’t see a problem of revising a constitution once every 25-50 years.
        baxtr 9y ago
        I don’t think I follow. What is then exactly now the difference if you compare Spain with other countries?
  - 6t6t6t6 9y ago
    Also, when my parents voted for the constitution, the other option what to go back for the dictatorship. For them, not being beaten by the police for speaking Catalan, was a huge step forward in terms of human rights.
    - notspanishflu 9y ago
      So you say the options were do you want democracy or we are going to resurrect Franco? hahahahaha Nobody ever was beating for speaking Catalan. Ever.

6t6t6t6 9y ago

And the sovereignty of the government comes from the social contract. When a big part of the citizens feel that they are not represented by the government, the social contract is broken. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract The Spaniards seem to love Rajoy, as they give him the majority in every election. Rajoy's party, "Partido Popular", is voted by less than 8% of the Catalans. So, the question is, why the Catalans need to be governed by a political party, that not only rules against them, but that does not represent Catalan society? There are more than 2 million people that do not accept the government of Madrid. How will Madrid rule over all this people without transforming Spain to a full-blown dictatorship again?

notspanishflu 9y ago
Are you kidding? Do you know how a democracy works?
- ryanlol 9y ago
  It works in a manner which encourages secession for regions which generally hold distinctly different political opinions than the rest of the country.
- dang 9y ago
  You've been repeatedly violating the site guidelines by posting uncivilly, unsubstantively, using this site for political battle, and generally ruining this and other threads. We ban accounts that do that regardless of how good your cause is or how wrong someone else is. We have to, because otherwise this place will destroy itself. I'm not going to ban you because you've used HN as intended before this recent political crisis. But it's dismaying that I had to look back through hundreds of comments to determine that. I understand how emotional these topics can be, but would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not post like this to HN again?