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Cool. Let's not negotiate. Consequences? You have a region where 50% of the people are so discontent with the situation that they are willing to go independent.
by farresito 9y ago
Cool. Let's not negotiate. Consequences? You have a region where 50% of the people are so discontent with the situation that they are willing to go independent. Unsustainable. So you basically give them no option: they can't hold a referendum for an independence, you don't want to find an agreement with them... What kind of government would do that?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- notspanishflu 9y agoFollowing your argument: lets make happy that 50% breaching the law, and lets punish the 50% honoring the law. That doesn't make any sense.
- ryanlol 9y agoSupporting independence isn't breaking the law. Voting for independence isn't breaking the law.
- notspanishflu 9y agoBut it is. It is specifically forbidden in the Spanish Constitution. The sovereignty of Spain resides in all Spaniards.
- ryanlol 9y agoEven the Spanish government does not agree with you. Few individuals such as Puidgemont may very well have violated the law, but supporting them simply isn't against the law.
- notspanishflu 9y agoI mean voting for independence, not having an opinion, obviously.
- ryanlol 9y agoAs jayniz says, please find the part of the constitution that outlaws voting for independence. (As opposed to organizing such a vote.)
- notspanishflu 9y agoI replied to jayniz, maybe you didn't see it. It's in the article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)
- ryanlol 9y agoThat certainly doesn't seem to outlaw people casting votes for independence.
- justin66 9y agoIndeed. It seems somewhat akin to "Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
- notspanishflu 9y agoBut doesn't mean that. In law there isn't something like 'oh it seems this legal precept means...' All legal precepts have carefully chosen words and a spirit in which they're based.
- justin66 9y agoNothing about (the English translation of) that sentence supports what you keep asserting. If a Spanish high court decided that's what it means in a decision, that's fine, but you should probably link people to the text of their decision instead of repeating the phrase over and over again as if it's magical.
- jayniz 9y agoCan you give us that quote from the constitution (the whole paragraph would be swell)?
- notspanishflu 9y agoThe article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution states: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)
- farresito 9y agoFirstly, being pro-Independence, as the other person mentioned, isn't breaking the law. Secondly, you didn't understand the point of my comment. My point was that if a good percentage of the population are so discontent with the situation that they are willing to go independent, then there's a problem, and to go as far as wanting to be independent from a country where you have lived all your life you need to be VERY discontent. Turning a blind eye and saying gibberish about the Constitution and blah blah blah helps very little with the problem. Aren't politicians in power to represent us and to try to solve these kind of issues? Maybe we can find a middle point that will satisfy both sides. I'm certainly very biased, like you are, but I think we need to make an effort to understand what every party wants.
- scalesolved 9y agoI've never seen a poll that lists support for full independence at 50% or higher, could you please provide a link?
- farresito 9y agoNo, because sadly they don't let us have a referendum.
- notspanishflu 9y agoThen stop pulling numbers from your ass. Thank you.
- farresito 9y agoMaybe you should stop citing shit newspapers like el país too then. Thank you :-)
- dang 9y agoI've warned you elsewhere in this thread, but just to repeat: this will get you banned here if you keep doing it. You're a good commenter otherwise, so please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this from now on.
- scalesolved 9y agoOh I know you're not allowed a referendum, you should be though. What I was referring to was public opinion polls, I've never seen one conducted that resulted in 50% or higher in favour of full independence.
- justin66 9y agoI know what you mean, but I am pretty sure that you're going to see those numbers go higher. It looks like some of the non-independence options that a person might have preferred in those polls are being explicitly taken off the table by the Spanish government.