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>The unexpectedly forceful moves by Mr. Rajoy That’s not true. Catalan leaders were given a few days to make it clear whether they had declared the independenc
by nadunez 9y ago
>The unexpectedly forceful moves by Mr. Rajoy
That’s not true. Catalan leaders were given a few days to make it clear whether they had declared the independence or not, because after their joke referendum, they were intentionally vague about what they were going to do. Puigdemont dodged the question again so this is it.
They said they want to negotiate with the central government. In my opinion this is simply racketeering, they want a better deal with taxes. This must not stand.
Nothing of this would have happened if secessionists wouldn't have had full access to the education and the media of that region since forever. They have been blasting propaganda por decades. Of course this was bound to happen. I work in the media and I know there's no way to get a grant for your small paper/radio station if you don't align with their values.
There's a widespread sentiment that Spain "is robbing them". But the truth is that this is just redistributing wealth; many regions of Spain give money and others take. That's how the economy works everywhere.
- farresito 9y agoCool. Let's not negotiate. Consequences? You have a region where 50% of the people are so discontent with the situation that they are willing to go independent. Unsustainable. So you basically give them no option: they can't hold a referendum for an independence, you don't want to find an agreement with them... What kind of government would do that?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- notspanishflu 9y agoFollowing your argument: lets make happy that 50% breaching the law, and lets punish the 50% honoring the law. That doesn't make any sense.
- ryanlol 9y agoSupporting independence isn't breaking the law. Voting for independence isn't breaking the law.
- notspanishflu 9y agoBut it is. It is specifically forbidden in the Spanish Constitution. The sovereignty of Spain resides in all Spaniards.
- ryanlol 9y agoEven the Spanish government does not agree with you. Few individuals such as Puidgemont may very well have violated the law, but supporting them simply isn't against the law.
- notspanishflu 9y agoI mean voting for independence, not having an opinion, obviously.
- ryanlol 9y agoAs jayniz says, please find the part of the constitution that outlaws voting for independence. (As opposed to organizing such a vote.)
- notspanishflu 9y agoI replied to jayniz, maybe you didn't see it. It's in the article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)
- farresito 9y agoFirstly, being pro-Independence, as the other person mentioned, isn't breaking the law. Secondly, you didn't understand the point of my comment. My point was that if a good percentage of the population are so discontent with the situation that they are willing to go independent, then there's a problem, and to go as far as wanting to be independent from a country where you have lived all your life you need to be VERY discontent. Turning a blind eye and saying gibberish about the Constitution and blah blah blah helps very little with the problem. Aren't politicians in power to represent us and to try to solve these kind of issues? Maybe we can find a middle point that will satisfy both sides. I'm certainly very biased, like you are, but I think we need to make an effort to understand what every party wants.
- scalesolved 9y agoI've never seen a poll that lists support for full independence at 50% or higher, could you please provide a link?
- farresito 9y agoNo, because sadly they don't let us have a referendum.
- notspanishflu 9y agoThen stop pulling numbers from your ass. Thank you.
- farresito 9y agoMaybe you should stop citing shit newspapers like el país too then. Thank you :-)
- dang 9y agoI've warned you elsewhere in this thread, but just to repeat: this will get you banned here if you keep doing it. You're a good commenter otherwise, so please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this from now on.
- scalesolved 9y agoOh I know you're not allowed a referendum, you should be though. What I was referring to was public opinion polls, I've never seen one conducted that resulted in 50% or higher in favour of full independence.
- justin66 9y agoI know what you mean, but I am pretty sure that you're going to see those numbers go higher. It looks like some of the non-independence options that a person might have preferred in those polls are being explicitly taken off the table by the Spanish government.
- rdudekul 9y agoSpain is forcing its might on a peaceful majority on Catalonians through violence & other 'onesided-lawful' means. When a significant majority (apparently 90% who polled) wants to separate, calling it a joke, is not really apt.
- notspanishflu 9y ago>Spain is forcing its might on a peaceful majority on Catalonians through violence... Except that statement is completely false.
- jayniz 9y agoUntil this comment I thought you're serious!
- notspanishflu 9y agoI've posted this already but it seems you didn't read it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/19/how-fake-news-helped-shape-the-catalonia-independence-vote/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/19... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/08/catalonia-demo-injuries-fact-checking https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/08/catalonia-demo... https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/02/inenglish/1506943013_999238.html https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/02/inenglish/1506943013_99...
- ryanlol 9y agoThese articles simply don't seem that relevant. Of course there's been a bunch of fake news on both sides. There was obviously a plenty of very real violence by GC, anyone watching the live streams saw this for themselves. And a few days ago el pais fired a bunch of folks for having the wrong opinions on Catalonia, so I'm not sure if they're the best source.
- notspanishflu 9y ago
- icebraining 9y agoIf being blasted with propaganda for decades means the people's opinions are invalid, how can the Constitution be defended, when that vote was held after more than thirty years of propaganda by a totalitarian (by its own admission) government?