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The company and the family is responsible for dramatically increasing number of opioid prescriptions based on fraudulent marketing and made up evidence. A lot

The company and the family is responsible for dramatically increasing number of opioid prescriptions based on fraudulent marketing and made up evidence. A lot of people, who, as a result, got addicted to Oxy, at some point ended up switching to heroin because it's cheaper. So, the manufacturer is not responsible for all opioid deaths, but is responsible for a significant percentage of those deaths.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
For more on this, see https://youtu.be/5pdPrQFjo2o?t=164 https://youtu.be/5pdPrQFjo2o?t=164 "How many people here moved from prescription drugs to heroin?" Everybody raised their hands.
- refurb 9y ago
  There are hundreds of prescription opioids. In fact, generic acetaminophen/oxycodone is the most prescribed. Perdue doesn't make that product.
  - rdiddly 9y ago
    Correct: Perdue "makes" chicken.
loeg 9y ago
> A lot of people, who, as a result, got addicted to Oxy, at some point ended up switching to heroin because it's cheaper. Counter-point: no, they largely did not. There is a huge population using prescription opiates and a tiny tiny population using heroin. Check out https://grokinfullness.blogspot.com/2017/09/debunking-standard-narrative-on-opioid.html https://grokinfullness.blogspot.com/2017/09/debunking-standa... for a lot more detail. > There is no convincing evidence that prior prescription opioid use caused subsequent heroin use. ... This is much like the argument, popular among drug warriors, that marijuana is a gateway drug because most users of hard drugs start with marijuana. There are simply so many current and past prescription opioid users that most heroin users will probably have had past experience with these drugs, but that says nothing at all about a causal link. Indeed, the vast majority of prescription opioid users never go on to use heroin, so the causal link is dubious. > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. By contrast, there were half a million heroin users. But there were comparable numbers of deaths in both categories (~13,000 from prescription opioids and 12,000 heroin deaths, or 18,500 heroin deaths if you add the "heroin" and "synthetic opioids" together to capture the fact that some dealers have been mixing fentanyl in with heroin). Some relevant numbers in my piece here, once again from the CDC's website. Deaths per legal opioid user are in the 0.015% range; deaths per heroin user are probably somewhere in the 1% to 3.5% range. > In other words, the prescription opioid deaths are a very small risk applied to a very large population. The heroin-related deaths are an extremely high risk applied to a relatively small population. These are very different issues with very different underlying social causes.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"There is no convincing evidence that prior prescription opioid use caused subsequent heroin use. ... This is much like the argument, popular among drug warriors, that marijuana is a gateway drug because most users of hard drugs start with marijuana." Except there are actually studies and data that do show a link between prior prescription opioid use amongst heroin users, along with a demographic shift: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/1874575 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... And the second part of that comment "This is much like the argument, popular among drug warriors, that marijuana is a gateway drug ..." is a total strawman.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. In a country of 350 million people this right here is all the evidence you need: it's obvious that US opioid prescribing is abusive.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    I've been prescribed opiates twice in my life, once after wisdom teeth removal and once after breaking my ankle. I'm sure I counted in the 85 million figure for that year despite never actually taking the drugs, as the pain was not bad enough to merit them. I wish doctors were less liberal about prescribing these serious drugs. It should be messaged as "If the pain is really unbearable, even with standard over-the-counter pain relievers, then consider a stronger alternative." Instead, it was more like "Oh you broke your ankle? Here's a prescription for strong drugs." Breaking my ankle doesn't even crack my top five most painful moments of my life -- those are all related to the flu/norovirus/food poisoning.
    - vasilipupkin 9y ago
      Your case is probably a legitimate case and most people probably would not get addicted after short term limited usage. The problem is prescribing it for more longer term situations.
  - 9y ago

sillysaurus3 9y ago

For more on this, see https://youtu.be/5pdPrQFjo2o?t=164 https://youtu.be/5pdPrQFjo2o?t=164 "How many people here moved from prescription drugs to heroin?" Everybody raised their hands.

refurb 9y ago
There are hundreds of prescription opioids. In fact, generic acetaminophen/oxycodone is the most prescribed. Perdue doesn't make that product.
- rdiddly 9y ago
  Correct: Perdue "makes" chicken.

loeg 9y ago

> A lot of people, who, as a result, got addicted to Oxy, at some point ended up switching to heroin because it's cheaper. Counter-point: no, they largely did not. There is a huge population using prescription opiates and a tiny tiny population using heroin. Check out https://grokinfullness.blogspot.com/2017/09/debunking-standard-narrative-on-opioid.html https://grokinfullness.blogspot.com/2017/09/debunking-standa... for a lot more detail. > There is no convincing evidence that prior prescription opioid use caused subsequent heroin use. ... This is much like the argument, popular among drug warriors, that marijuana is a gateway drug because most users of hard drugs start with marijuana. There are simply so many current and past prescription opioid users that most heroin users will probably have had past experience with these drugs, but that says nothing at all about a causal link. Indeed, the vast majority of prescription opioid users never go on to use heroin, so the causal link is dubious. > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. By contrast, there were half a million heroin users. But there were comparable numbers of deaths in both categories (~13,000 from prescription opioids and 12,000 heroin deaths, or 18,500 heroin deaths if you add the "heroin" and "synthetic opioids" together to capture the fact that some dealers have been mixing fentanyl in with heroin). Some relevant numbers in my piece here, once again from the CDC's website. Deaths per legal opioid user are in the 0.015% range; deaths per heroin user are probably somewhere in the 1% to 3.5% range. > In other words, the prescription opioid deaths are a very small risk applied to a very large population. The heroin-related deaths are an extremely high risk applied to a relatively small population. These are very different issues with very different underlying social causes.

bogomipz 9y ago
>"There is no convincing evidence that prior prescription opioid use caused subsequent heroin use. ... This is much like the argument, popular among drug warriors, that marijuana is a gateway drug because most users of hard drugs start with marijuana." Except there are actually studies and data that do show a link between prior prescription opioid use amongst heroin users, along with a demographic shift: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/1874575 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... And the second part of that comment "This is much like the argument, popular among drug warriors, that marijuana is a gateway drug ..." is a total strawman.
DanBC 9y ago
> > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. In a country of 350 million people this right here is all the evidence you need: it's obvious that US opioid prescribing is abusive.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  I've been prescribed opiates twice in my life, once after wisdom teeth removal and once after breaking my ankle. I'm sure I counted in the 85 million figure for that year despite never actually taking the drugs, as the pain was not bad enough to merit them. I wish doctors were less liberal about prescribing these serious drugs. It should be messaged as "If the pain is really unbearable, even with standard over-the-counter pain relievers, then consider a stronger alternative." Instead, it was more like "Oh you broke your ankle? Here's a prescription for strong drugs." Breaking my ankle doesn't even crack my top five most painful moments of my life -- those are all related to the flu/norovirus/food poisoning.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    Your case is probably a legitimate case and most people probably would not get addicted after short term limited usage. The problem is prescribing it for more longer term situations.
- 9y ago