4 ms·

I don’t understand. Design can’t be beautiful?

by kobeya 9y ago

l33tbro 9y ago
Design can certainly be beautiful. What I was trying to articulate (unsuccessfully, as usual) is people describing things as beautiful in an objective way. Ie, as if certain objects or products are impervious to changing trends and tastes. Particularly in tech these days, it feels like I'm always seeing marketing material around "creating beautiful layouts" or "beautiful products." Just an old man gripe of mine.
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  Do you think a bird or a flower can be fairly objectively beautiful? I think they can, and I don't see why human design can't be fairly so, too.
  - Filligree 9y ago
    I don't think they can. I do think they can be beautiful to the vast majority of humans looking at them, but that's still subjective; an alien might disagree.
    - jamesrcole 9y ago
      In terms of that sense of objective, I agree.
- kobeya 9y ago
  Nefertiti is as beautiful today as she was 3300 years ago. It's not possible to say the same about a tech design? I'm sure the Cray-1 will be as iconic and beautiful 1000 years from now as it was when it was introduced. Also, since we're nitpicking, I don't see the word 'objective' anywhere in TFA.
- Veen 9y ago
  > people describing things as beautiful in an objective way All people who have passed a certain intellectual threshold recognize that when another person says "beautiful" or "lovely" or "right" without giving reasons, they're expressing a personal opinion, although perhaps one informed by years of experience in a particular field. It's not necessary to preface every opinion with boilerplate signifying that the writer is a human being with a limited perspective and that the opinions they express aren't intended to be absolute pronouncements on the nature of objective reality. It's understood.
  - l33tbro 9y ago
    Dunning, have you met Kruger? I'm not sure how one could extract this sentiment from my initial comment and progress to such a patronising and paternalistic dressing-down, save for a thoroughly uncharitable disposition.
- austinjp 9y ago
  I'm with you. "Beautiful" has become a dominant end-goal, promoted by plenty of software/services as a focal part of the product. It's hard to articulate why this feels objectionable. Perhaps I'm suspicious that emphasising beauty over functionality will lead to dumbed-down products that don't interest me. Perhaps I'm irked that beauty is valued by customers above functionality/reliability/etc, or that the sales/marketing teams feel that's so. Do resources spent on beauty detract from resources expended on improved functionality, reliability, usability, security...? Perhaps I'm concerned with the continuing march of users who can barely operate their many very expensive devices, and the security and support risks that come with this. Then again... who am I to turn back the tide. Perhaps the role of the software developer is to predict "under the hood" problems that come from an emphasis of beauty, and fix them before they happen, to ensure the buttery-smooth experience users expect.

I don’t understand. Design can’t be beautiful?

by kobeya 9y ago

I don’t understand. Design can’t be beautiful?

Design can certainly be beautiful. What I was trying to articulate (unsuccessfully, as usual) is people describing things as beautiful in an objective way. Ie, as if certain objects or products are impervious to changing trends and tastes. Particularly in tech these days, it feels like I'm always seeing marketing material around "creating beautiful layouts" or "beautiful products." Just an old man gripe of mine.

jamesrcole 9y ago
Do you think a bird or a flower can be fairly objectively beautiful? I think they can, and I don't see why human design can't be fairly so, too.
- Filligree 9y ago
  I don't think they can. I do think they can be beautiful to the vast majority of humans looking at them, but that's still subjective; an alien might disagree.
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    In terms of that sense of objective, I agree.
kobeya 9y ago
Nefertiti is as beautiful today as she was 3300 years ago. It's not possible to say the same about a tech design? I'm sure the Cray-1 will be as iconic and beautiful 1000 years from now as it was when it was introduced. Also, since we're nitpicking, I don't see the word 'objective' anywhere in TFA.
Veen 9y ago
> people describing things as beautiful in an objective way All people who have passed a certain intellectual threshold recognize that when another person says "beautiful" or "lovely" or "right" without giving reasons, they're expressing a personal opinion, although perhaps one informed by years of experience in a particular field. It's not necessary to preface every opinion with boilerplate signifying that the writer is a human being with a limited perspective and that the opinions they express aren't intended to be absolute pronouncements on the nature of objective reality. It's understood.
- l33tbro 9y ago
  Dunning, have you met Kruger? I'm not sure how one could extract this sentiment from my initial comment and progress to such a patronising and paternalistic dressing-down, save for a thoroughly uncharitable disposition.
austinjp 9y ago
I'm with you. "Beautiful" has become a dominant end-goal, promoted by plenty of software/services as a focal part of the product. It's hard to articulate why this feels objectionable. Perhaps I'm suspicious that emphasising beauty over functionality will lead to dumbed-down products that don't interest me. Perhaps I'm irked that beauty is valued by customers above functionality/reliability/etc, or that the sales/marketing teams feel that's so. Do resources spent on beauty detract from resources expended on improved functionality, reliability, usability, security...? Perhaps I'm concerned with the continuing march of users who can barely operate their many very expensive devices, and the security and support risks that come with this. Then again... who am I to turn back the tide. Perhaps the role of the software developer is to predict "under the hood" problems that come from an emphasis of beauty, and fix them before they happen, to ensure the buttery-smooth experience users expect.