3 ms·

> Amends are really hard to do. I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I mean something that costs more than a few w

> Amends are really hard to do. I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I mean something that costs more than a few words written on a page. Donating x% of their wealth to organizations of the victim's choosing (where x is a fraction large enough to be uncomfortable), entering some kind of monastic or hermetic lifestyle for more than a day or two, committing to X hours of anonymous volunteer labor, resigning their positions of authority and power, retreating from public life. Occasionally something like this is forced on the perpetrator, but I've yet to see any of them take it upon themselves to take this step. Personally I think an apology is worth about as much as the effort put into it, and this is low effort. Still, you're right that it's better than most.

Mz 9y ago
Amends and penance are not the same thing. Amends are about reparations for the victim. Penance is about suffering for the perpetrator. These things are mostly not related.
- discoursism 9y ago
  I was talking about penance, and I also used the word penance, so we're good, right? The quoted section is what made me think about this aspect of the issue.
  - Mz 9y ago
    You are entitled to your views. But, I don't want my remarks about amends conflated with penance. I replied at all because of this line: I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I considered replying at length and decided against it. My initial impulse was to feel like I can give you the thing you are asking for. But, then I realized, no, I can't. The individual that raped me made amends. But, he did not do penance. I eventually forgave him, in part because he made amends. I never got the apology I spent years wanting, nor any confession of guilt. I eventually concluded it wasn't important. I don't imagine you actually want to hear that. So, I decided to not write about it. What you want is for these people to suffer. In a sense, you want some kind of revenge. I generally do not. I would much rather see reparations made to those who were harmed. Ghandi said "An eye for an eye will leave us all blind." I don't think you build peacefulness and positive environments by going on the warpath. Peace is not merely the absence of something negative. Peacefulness or a peaceful environment is an actively positive experience that can be remarkably hard to try to describe effectively. It is probably a mistake to reply here. It feels equally problematic to not reply. I will likely not engage further.

Mz 9y ago

Amends and penance are not the same thing. Amends are about reparations for the victim. Penance is about suffering for the perpetrator. These things are mostly not related.

discoursism 9y ago
I was talking about penance, and I also used the word penance, so we're good, right? The quoted section is what made me think about this aspect of the issue.
- Mz 9y ago
  You are entitled to your views. But, I don't want my remarks about amends conflated with penance. I replied at all because of this line: I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I considered replying at length and decided against it. My initial impulse was to feel like I can give you the thing you are asking for. But, then I realized, no, I can't. The individual that raped me made amends. But, he did not do penance. I eventually forgave him, in part because he made amends. I never got the apology I spent years wanting, nor any confession of guilt. I eventually concluded it wasn't important. I don't imagine you actually want to hear that. So, I decided to not write about it. What you want is for these people to suffer. In a sense, you want some kind of revenge. I generally do not. I would much rather see reparations made to those who were harmed. Ghandi said "An eye for an eye will leave us all blind." I don't think you build peacefulness and positive environments by going on the warpath. Peace is not merely the absence of something negative. Peacefulness or a peaceful environment is an actively positive experience that can be remarkably hard to try to describe effectively. It is probably a mistake to reply here. It feels equally problematic to not reply. I will likely not engage further.