5 ms·

Can't seem to find any details on the extent of his mis-behaviour. Wikipedia page says "sexually assaulted", and that "Sarah Seitz, a sustainability analyst at

Can't seem to find any details on the extent of his mis-behaviour. Wikipedia page says "sexually assaulted", and that "Sarah Seitz, a sustainability analyst at NASA, replied accusing Scoble of also having assaulted her" Isn't sexual assault a serious crime? Why didn't these women report it to the Police. Or does touching without consent or grabbing someone or trying to grope someone (like our current President is alleged to have done to many women) also constitute sexual assault, but is generally not reported by the female victims for fear of getting ostracized or receive backlash from friends and co-workers? [Not trolling serious question. The difference I see between Dave McClure and Robert Scoble is that the former was accused of 'sexual harrassment' whereas Robert Scoble appears to have been accused of 'sexual ASSAULT' by a couple of women atleast ]

olliej 9y ago
Have you ever looked at the accounts of women who /have/ reported it? If it actually goes to trial basically the defense finds every single thing you ever did and tries to portray you as a slut who was asking for it. If the person is famous people will say you’re lying and trying to get rich out of a settlement. You’re required to repeatedly go over every step of the assault whether it was harassment or rape. They ask if you orgasmed (because that means you wanted it), that your jeans were too tight for a rapist to remove them, you were partially responsible because you passed out (so it wasn’t rape), ... Then even if they do get found guilty they punishment may be insignificant (think Stanford rapist) And then there’s how you get penalized, irrespective of whether the person was found guilty * if you’re on social media you get harassed by the bigots on chan, Reddit, etc your name on google ends up publicizing the assault * if the person you’re accusing has power/influence you lose your career (which is why so many victims in film didn’t say anything about asshole guy). Tech has a similar problem - look at what happens to women who call out anything at tech conferences. The result of saying anything is typically catastrophic to the victim and frequently has little impact on the abuser. If you ever actually pay attention you can find out about the people women tell each other to avoid at cons or parties because they are known predators. Because doing it that way is less harmful or and damaging to your own life than going public.
- pfg 9y ago
  The Stanford case is a really good (and chilling) example of what victims of these crimes can go through. This is the letter the victim read to the rapist at his sentencing[1]. [1]: https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra?utm_term=.rilpybMqM#.wvRXo3B8B https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-let...
  - justboxing 9y ago
    Yes, totally chilling.
- belorn 9y ago
  What is the benefit of going public through media but not reporting it to the police? Do women really get less harassed from chan/Reddit if they only go public on media? How would trial by media be better for the victim? Trial by media benefits no one. > you were partially responsible because you passed out (so it wasn’t rape) In practically every country in the world it is rape if someone has sex with a unconscious person. What legal system where you referring to that has that as a legal defense?
  - albedoa 9y ago
    > What is the benefit of going public through media but not reporting it to the police? A much lower burden of proof with swifter, cheaper, and more certain consequences. Is this a serious question? > Trial by media benefits no one. What? Look no further than the story you’re replying to. Anyone who has to interact or was considering interacting with Scoble is now more informed and better off than they were before.
    - belorn 9y ago
      olliej comment above says nothing about lower burden of proof with swifter, cheaper, and more certain consequences. Harassment, personal and aggressive questioning from the public, low sentences, and general catastrophic impact on the victim from going public. Those were the arguments on why victims don't go public. If lower burden of proof and harsher punishment for the accused is needed for victims to trust the legal system with sexual assault cases, then just be clear and advocate for that. The legal system can always be changed.
RealGeek 9y ago
I was shocked to learn that most of the women I know have faced sexual assault (unwanted grabbing or groping), but none of them ever reported to the police. Similarly, most men I know have suffered some sort of physical assault but none reported it. How many men do you know who have been punched by someone? Did they report it to police? The reason why they don't report is because such crimes are very hard to prosecute and prove in court. Prosecuting them takes a toll on victim's life and rarely result in anything positive for the victim.
edanm 9y ago
I'm pretty sure it depends on the level of the sexual assault. E.g. groping - if we're talking "groped someone randomly, with their clothes on" and nothing more, then even if this gets reported, what could happen? This probably won't result in too much of a punishment, and is pretty hard to prove. And, unfortunately, as you can probably see by now, it happens to pretty much all women and is extremely common. It doesn't make it right or mean that we shouldn't stop it, but I kind of understand why people who are used to it happening don't do much with it. I think that's why we need to change the norms, both of how people who see this happening deal with it, and of how OK it is. If you see someone groping someone without their consent, say something! It's probably not going to get reported to the police, but if we as a society don't accept it, then it will get better. Of course, once you get to things like rape, then that's a much more serious offense that can definitely have the police involved.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > E.g. groping - if we're talking "groped someone randomly, with their clothes on" and nothing more, then even if this gets reported, what could happen? It's both a tort and a crime, usually, so there is a lot that could happen; which is not to say that it is likely that the consequences available in principle would be applied.
  - edanm 9y ago
    I think a lot could also theoretically happen when you punch someone, as that's assault. And yet I assume that depending on context, usually not much happens. E.g. I assume if someone is punched in a bar fight, the chance of being brought up on charges (and the punishment if you are) are rather small. As opposed to if I go up to someone in an airport and punch them. Which is to say that context matters and is dictated by our customs, which is why we need to change what we think of us acceptable so that groping is unacceptable everywhere.
  - mercer 9y ago
    If Scoble were to walk into a police station and explain in detail what he did and who he did it to, would there be ramifications?
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Isn't sexual assault a serious crime? In theory, yes; in practice police, prosecutors, and judges all too often don't treat it (or even actual rape) seriously. With regard to judges, the Stanford rape case is the banner example recently; but earlier in the chain the fact thatany departments collect but then do not process rape kits is a huge problem. > The difference I see between Dave McClure and Robert Scoble is that the former was accused of 'sexual harrassment' whereas Robert Scoble appears to have been accused of 'sexual ASSAULT' by a couple of women atleast McClure was accused of sexual assault as well (and not strictly legally speaking sexual harassment at all, AFAIK, but acts, both the assaults and lesser acts, that would have been harassment if VC-founder relationships were governed by the same legal rules as employer-employee relationships.)
- tbcj 9y ago
  > in practice police, prosecutors, and judges all too often don't treat it (or even actual rape) seriously. You might have more experience with police, prosecutors, and judges than I do, but in my experience this isn't the case. I've known many to be dismissive of drug crimes and even property crimes, but sexual assaults and rape are both addressed earnestly. That's not to say that sexual assaults and rapes are not nolle pros'd and often. As recent events demonstrate, unless people feel comfortable coming forward, then it is impossible to prove the case. The Confrontation Clause is an obstacle that is difficult to overcome in these cases without a profusely willing victim. This is to say saying that law enforcement is the problem is an oversimplification. > With regard to judges, the Stanford rape case is the banner example recently; but earlier in the chain the fact thatany departments collect but then do not process rape kits is a huge problem. In a lot of states, crime labs are independent of police departments. There are severe backlogs because they are understaffed. If you want more processing, you need to ensure your state representatives properly fund these bodies. Consequently, it's not up to the police in many cases when and if a rape kit is tested. Thankfully, there are organizations like SAKI[1] that are pursuing rape kit testing reform in many places where there are impediments to testing these kits. [1]: https://www.sakitta.org/ https://www.sakitta.org/
pvg 9y ago
"Not trolling serious question." Given how much has already been written about this, many times by the victims themselves, this is pretty much trolling and not a serious question.

olliej 9y ago

Have you ever looked at the accounts of women who /have/ reported it? If it actually goes to trial basically the defense finds every single thing you ever did and tries to portray you as a slut who was asking for it. If the person is famous people will say you’re lying and trying to get rich out of a settlement. You’re required to repeatedly go over every step of the assault whether it was harassment or rape. They ask if you orgasmed (because that means you wanted it), that your jeans were too tight for a rapist to remove them, you were partially responsible because you passed out (so it wasn’t rape), ... Then even if they do get found guilty they punishment may be insignificant (think Stanford rapist) And then there’s how you get penalized, irrespective of whether the person was found guilty * if you’re on social media you get harassed by the bigots on chan, Reddit, etc your name on google ends up publicizing the assault * if the person you’re accusing has power/influence you lose your career (which is why so many victims in film didn’t say anything about asshole guy). Tech has a similar problem - look at what happens to women who call out anything at tech conferences. The result of saying anything is typically catastrophic to the victim and frequently has little impact on the abuser. If you ever actually pay attention you can find out about the people women tell each other to avoid at cons or parties because they are known predators. Because doing it that way is less harmful or and damaging to your own life than going public.

pfg 9y ago
The Stanford case is a really good (and chilling) example of what victims of these crimes can go through. This is the letter the victim read to the rapist at his sentencing[1]. [1]: https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra?utm_term=.rilpybMqM#.wvRXo3B8B https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-let...
- justboxing 9y ago
  Yes, totally chilling.
belorn 9y ago
What is the benefit of going public through media but not reporting it to the police? Do women really get less harassed from chan/Reddit if they only go public on media? How would trial by media be better for the victim? Trial by media benefits no one. > you were partially responsible because you passed out (so it wasn’t rape) In practically every country in the world it is rape if someone has sex with a unconscious person. What legal system where you referring to that has that as a legal defense?
- albedoa 9y ago
  > What is the benefit of going public through media but not reporting it to the police? A much lower burden of proof with swifter, cheaper, and more certain consequences. Is this a serious question? > Trial by media benefits no one. What? Look no further than the story you’re replying to. Anyone who has to interact or was considering interacting with Scoble is now more informed and better off than they were before.
  - belorn 9y ago
    olliej comment above says nothing about lower burden of proof with swifter, cheaper, and more certain consequences. Harassment, personal and aggressive questioning from the public, low sentences, and general catastrophic impact on the victim from going public. Those were the arguments on why victims don't go public. If lower burden of proof and harsher punishment for the accused is needed for victims to trust the legal system with sexual assault cases, then just be clear and advocate for that. The legal system can always be changed.

RealGeek 9y ago

I was shocked to learn that most of the women I know have faced sexual assault (unwanted grabbing or groping), but none of them ever reported to the police. Similarly, most men I know have suffered some sort of physical assault but none reported it. How many men do you know who have been punched by someone? Did they report it to police? The reason why they don't report is because such crimes are very hard to prosecute and prove in court. Prosecuting them takes a toll on victim's life and rarely result in anything positive for the victim.

edanm 9y ago

I'm pretty sure it depends on the level of the sexual assault. E.g. groping - if we're talking "groped someone randomly, with their clothes on" and nothing more, then even if this gets reported, what could happen? This probably won't result in too much of a punishment, and is pretty hard to prove. And, unfortunately, as you can probably see by now, it happens to pretty much all women and is extremely common. It doesn't make it right or mean that we shouldn't stop it, but I kind of understand why people who are used to it happening don't do much with it. I think that's why we need to change the norms, both of how people who see this happening deal with it, and of how OK it is. If you see someone groping someone without their consent, say something! It's probably not going to get reported to the police, but if we as a society don't accept it, then it will get better. Of course, once you get to things like rape, then that's a much more serious offense that can definitely have the police involved.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> E.g. groping - if we're talking "groped someone randomly, with their clothes on" and nothing more, then even if this gets reported, what could happen? It's both a tort and a crime, usually, so there is a lot that could happen; which is not to say that it is likely that the consequences available in principle would be applied.
- edanm 9y ago
  I think a lot could also theoretically happen when you punch someone, as that's assault. And yet I assume that depending on context, usually not much happens. E.g. I assume if someone is punched in a bar fight, the chance of being brought up on charges (and the punishment if you are) are rather small. As opposed to if I go up to someone in an airport and punch them. Which is to say that context matters and is dictated by our customs, which is why we need to change what we think of us acceptable so that groping is unacceptable everywhere.
- mercer 9y ago
  If Scoble were to walk into a police station and explain in detail what he did and who he did it to, would there be ramifications?

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Isn't sexual assault a serious crime? In theory, yes; in practice police, prosecutors, and judges all too often don't treat it (or even actual rape) seriously. With regard to judges, the Stanford rape case is the banner example recently; but earlier in the chain the fact thatany departments collect but then do not process rape kits is a huge problem. > The difference I see between Dave McClure and Robert Scoble is that the former was accused of 'sexual harrassment' whereas Robert Scoble appears to have been accused of 'sexual ASSAULT' by a couple of women atleast McClure was accused of sexual assault as well (and not strictly legally speaking sexual harassment at all, AFAIK, but acts, both the assaults and lesser acts, that would have been harassment if VC-founder relationships were governed by the same legal rules as employer-employee relationships.)

tbcj 9y ago
> in practice police, prosecutors, and judges all too often don't treat it (or even actual rape) seriously. You might have more experience with police, prosecutors, and judges than I do, but in my experience this isn't the case. I've known many to be dismissive of drug crimes and even property crimes, but sexual assaults and rape are both addressed earnestly. That's not to say that sexual assaults and rapes are not nolle pros'd and often. As recent events demonstrate, unless people feel comfortable coming forward, then it is impossible to prove the case. The Confrontation Clause is an obstacle that is difficult to overcome in these cases without a profusely willing victim. This is to say saying that law enforcement is the problem is an oversimplification. > With regard to judges, the Stanford rape case is the banner example recently; but earlier in the chain the fact thatany departments collect but then do not process rape kits is a huge problem. In a lot of states, crime labs are independent of police departments. There are severe backlogs because they are understaffed. If you want more processing, you need to ensure your state representatives properly fund these bodies. Consequently, it's not up to the police in many cases when and if a rape kit is tested. Thankfully, there are organizations like SAKI[1] that are pursuing rape kit testing reform in many places where there are impediments to testing these kits. [1]: https://www.sakitta.org/ https://www.sakitta.org/

pvg 9y ago

"Not trolling serious question." Given how much has already been written about this, many times by the victims themselves, this is pretty much trolling and not a serious question.