3 ms·

Well, it is sort of weak. But: A) How many actually good examples do we have to draw upon? Most such things are pretty blatant attempts at saving face. This at

by Mz 9y ago

Well, it is sort of weak. But: A) How many actually good examples do we have to draw upon? Most such things are pretty blatant attempts at saving face. This at least has some sincerity to it. B) He isn't justifying, excusing or denying. He did quit drinking already, which is perhaps the most important thing he could do to prove he is taking it seriously that he needs to stop hurting other people. He is fairly realistic that being better in the future is the primary thing he can do. He also acknowledges that it doesn't undo his past actions or somehow make things okay for people he hurt. Amends are really hard to do. They also don't always come in a form readily recognizable as directly related to the bad act. Also, he kept it short and didn't make it about him and his big feels or sob story. It is reasonably gracious in that regard.

discoursism 9y ago
> Amends are really hard to do. I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I mean something that costs more than a few words written on a page. Donating x% of their wealth to organizations of the victim's choosing (where x is a fraction large enough to be uncomfortable), entering some kind of monastic or hermetic lifestyle for more than a day or two, committing to X hours of anonymous volunteer labor, resigning their positions of authority and power, retreating from public life. Occasionally something like this is forced on the perpetrator, but I've yet to see any of them take it upon themselves to take this step. Personally I think an apology is worth about as much as the effort put into it, and this is low effort. Still, you're right that it's better than most.
- Mz 9y ago
  Amends and penance are not the same thing. Amends are about reparations for the victim. Penance is about suffering for the perpetrator. These things are mostly not related.
  - discoursism 9y ago
    I was talking about penance, and I also used the word penance, so we're good, right? The quoted section is what made me think about this aspect of the issue.
    - Mz 9y ago
      You are entitled to your views. But, I don't want my remarks about amends conflated with penance. I replied at all because of this line: I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I considered replying at length and decided against it. My initial impulse was to feel like I can give you the thing you are asking for. But, then I realized, no, I can't. The individual that raped me made amends. But, he did not do penance. I eventually forgave him, in part because he made amends. I never got the apology I spent years wanting, nor any confession of guilt. I eventually concluded it wasn't important. I don't imagine you actually want to hear that. So, I decided to not write about it. What you want is for these people to suffer. In a sense, you want some kind of revenge. I generally do not. I would much rather see reparations made to those who were harmed. Ghandi said "An eye for an eye will leave us all blind." I don't think you build peacefulness and positive environments by going on the warpath. Peace is not merely the absence of something negative. Peacefulness or a peaceful environment is an actively positive experience that can be remarkably hard to try to describe effectively. It is probably a mistake to reply here. It feels equally problematic to not reply. I will likely not engage further.
baudehlo 9y ago
Well it’s years later and frankly at the end of his career. He has no downside to admitting this. His apology means nothing. He needs to be ostracized, and hopefully this might send a message to anyone else thinking their status and influence means they have sexual power.
oculusforever 9y ago
He didn't quit drinking or doing drugs. https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/20/robert-scoble-has-allegedly-continued-to-sexually-harass-women-after-going-sober/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/20/robert-scoble-has-allegedl...
trgv 9y ago
Amends aren't hard to do, especially if you get to type them out and proofread them. He says the question is "how can I do better?" That's not the question. The question is, will he be charged, and, if he is, what conclusion will the jury come to? That's how this system is supposed to work.

by Mz 9y ago

discoursism 9y ago

> Amends are really hard to do. I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I mean something that costs more than a few words written on a page. Donating x% of their wealth to organizations of the victim's choosing (where x is a fraction large enough to be uncomfortable), entering some kind of monastic or hermetic lifestyle for more than a day or two, committing to X hours of anonymous volunteer labor, resigning their positions of authority and power, retreating from public life. Occasionally something like this is forced on the perpetrator, but I've yet to see any of them take it upon themselves to take this step. Personally I think an apology is worth about as much as the effort put into it, and this is low effort. Still, you're right that it's better than most.

Mz 9y ago
Amends and penance are not the same thing. Amends are about reparations for the victim. Penance is about suffering for the perpetrator. These things are mostly not related.
- discoursism 9y ago
  I was talking about penance, and I also used the word penance, so we're good, right? The quoted section is what made me think about this aspect of the issue.
  - Mz 9y ago
    You are entitled to your views. But, I don't want my remarks about amends conflated with penance. I replied at all because of this line: I'd just once love to see one of these abusers make some kind of serious penance. I considered replying at length and decided against it. My initial impulse was to feel like I can give you the thing you are asking for. But, then I realized, no, I can't. The individual that raped me made amends. But, he did not do penance. I eventually forgave him, in part because he made amends. I never got the apology I spent years wanting, nor any confession of guilt. I eventually concluded it wasn't important. I don't imagine you actually want to hear that. So, I decided to not write about it. What you want is for these people to suffer. In a sense, you want some kind of revenge. I generally do not. I would much rather see reparations made to those who were harmed. Ghandi said "An eye for an eye will leave us all blind." I don't think you build peacefulness and positive environments by going on the warpath. Peace is not merely the absence of something negative. Peacefulness or a peaceful environment is an actively positive experience that can be remarkably hard to try to describe effectively. It is probably a mistake to reply here. It feels equally problematic to not reply. I will likely not engage further.

baudehlo 9y ago

Well it’s years later and frankly at the end of his career. He has no downside to admitting this. His apology means nothing. He needs to be ostracized, and hopefully this might send a message to anyone else thinking their status and influence means they have sexual power.

oculusforever 9y ago

He didn't quit drinking or doing drugs. https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/20/robert-scoble-has-allegedly-continued-to-sexually-harass-women-after-going-sober/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/20/robert-scoble-has-allegedl...

trgv 9y ago

Amends aren't hard to do, especially if you get to type them out and proofread them. He says the question is "how can I do better?" That's not the question. The question is, will he be charged, and, if he is, what conclusion will the jury come to? That's how this system is supposed to work.