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> Hell, when the Mayor of NYC said something about it, at the next event, cops turned their backs on him. > These are not "decent people". I really don't thin
by eric_h 9y ago
> Hell, when the Mayor of NYC said something about it, at the next event, cops turned their backs on him.
> These are not "decent people".
I really don't think it's that clear cut. The cops who turned their backs aren't all, necessarily, bad people. The insularity of police culture generates significant peer pressure for cops to cover each other's backs and to protect their mutual perceived safety and self interest.
They respond to perceived attacks on interests in a similar way to what many subcultures do when they feel their interests are being encroached upon; they protest and grow more insular in solidarity.
This tends to lead to a bubble and allows otherwise decent people to, inadvertently or otherwise, overlook the shortcomings of "a few bad apples", in the interest of protecting people who they think have their best interests at heart.
I'm not saying this is good, it's just important to remember that cops are humans and behave like humans. Training is supposed to reduce the incidence of human misbehavior but I think that even just the fact that police wear uniforms tends to make them take the side of the "team" that they're representing.
- s73ver_ 9y agoIf you turn your back on a mayor asking for police accountability, and you side with those who wantonly murder innocent people, then you are a bad person. They are people, but they're also given quite a lot of power. I don't think it is a bad thing that they be held to a higher standard of accountability for it. That, and I also don't think that "don't take the side of those who murder innocent people" is a high standard.
- JamesBarney 9y agoAn enormous amount of evil that has occurred in this world has involved peer pressure. And all evil has extenuating circumstances. I understand that to prevent evil we should understand the reasoning behind why people do bad things. But this doesn't make the people or acts less evil. Peer pressure or not, protesting accountability for your group after a member committed manslaughter is a bad act.
- Clubber 9y ago>Peer pressure or not, protesting accountability for your group after a member committed manslaughter is a bad act. I believe they were protesting the generalizations he insinuated about the entire police department. I found it distasteful, but the good cops had a reason to be pissed.
- mistermann 9y agoI don't know about everyone else, but until they start to step up and turn in the bad apples, I will personally continue to make generalizations. These people are police officers, it's their job to uphold the law.
- Clubber 9y agoGiving the benefit of the doubt, good cops could have turned in serious offenders, but we would never know about it because we only get our information from the news. I assume the PD would keep it internal. Granted, that is an optimistic view.
- eric_h 9y agoI suppose it wasn't entirely clear as I didn't state it explicitly, but my point really was that a few bad apples spoils the bunch.
- rhizome 9y agoYou should sprinkle some more "I think" and "I believe" and "I'm under the impression" when stating your opinions, because none of what you say is anything more than speculation and just-so stories.
- Clubber 9y agoWhen writing an opinion piece, at least in formal writing which has higher standards, writers are trained not to do that. At least in the writing classes I took ages ago. Here's why: https://preciseedit.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/in-my-opinion-i-think-that-i-believe-this-is-bad-writing/ https://preciseedit.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/in-my-opinion-i...
- rhizome 9y agoI agree, and of course there's an implied statement of opinion in screeds like GP's, but they set up such a tenuous chain of causality that I just couldn't help myself.
- mistermann 9y agoI don't know, if you ask me when in the field of public policy, this approach is a bad idea. When I encounter someone making proposals who is stating opinion as fact, I assume the person doesn't know the difference so I discount their opinion fairly strongly, because a lot if not most people in my experience genuinely don't know the difference.
- Clubber 9y agoYes, journalism is a bit different, but typically opinion pieces either have OPINION written at the top of the article on the web, or appear in the opinion section of the paper. I generally stay away from opinion pieces because they deliberately try to convince me to a particular side of an argument, which usually excludes alternative information. I'd rather come up with my own conclusions.
- eric_h 9y agoI led the comment with "I really don't think it's that clear cut" - intending to indicate I was about to express an opinion. I have a friend in the NYPD, who did not turn his back on the mayor in that incident. This problem needs to be solved from the top down. Police need to be constantly reminded that their job is more than just being enforcers.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- kelnos 9y ago> The insularity of police culture generates significant peer pressure for cops to cover each other's backs and to protect their mutual perceived safety and self interest. If you are a cop and succumb to peer pressure to protect bad cops from the consequences of their actions, then I submit that you are also a bad cop. We must hold the police to a higher standard than "they're just human; they can't help behaving this way".
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoHistory is full of murderous monsters who were nothing but kind to their families and neighbors. I recognize that these cops are not mustache-twirling villains but humans subject to various emotional pressures, but if they're enabling and protecting murderers then they are not good cops.