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Indeed, the public and regulators are not pushing enough, the floor needs to be hotter for the CEO, whoever is in charge. Google has lost its cute startup imag

Indeed, the public and regulators are not pushing enough, the floor needs to be hotter for the CEO, whoever is in charge. Google has lost its cute startup image long time ago and people have realized companies are never out there for the social / greater good, just for profits. It's time to break up Google.

AnthonyMouse 9y ago
> Google has lost its cute startup image long time ago and people have realized companies are never out there for the social / greater good, just for profits. It's more than that. Their behavior has changed. Some years ago everyone was on their side because they were fighting for network neutrality and building Google Fiber and supporting Linux and providing Chilling Effects links to notify users of DMCA censorship and generally sticking it to the MPAA/Comcast/Microsoft. These days they're not only not really doing that anymore, now they're misidentifying videos with YouTube Content ID and infecting web standards with EME and tracking everyone much more comprehensively than they used to. People only think you're on their side as long as you continue to do things that show you're on their side.
- ino 9y ago
  Aren't they also accomplices on the net neutrality attacks? They could stop companies from advertising "free" Youtube if they were for net neutrality. Same goes for Facebook and others, of course. some examples from the 3 big operators in Portugal: http://www.moche.pt/tarifarios/moche-legend/ http://www.moche.pt/tarifarios/moche-legend/ https://www.yorn.net/yorn/tarifario/yornx.html https://www.yorn.net/yorn/tarifario/yornx.html http://www.wtf.pt http://www.wtf.pt
- majormajor 9y ago
  Those things are what gets HN riled up, but none of those things are noticed or cared about by mass consumer sentiment. That's driven by stuff like political stances, ad and content moderation practices, search result ordering, and other much less technical concerns.
  - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
    > Those things are what gets HN riled up, but none of those things are noticed or cared about by mass consumer sentiment. People are always forgetting that tech people are the ones involved in decisions about tech stuff. When a huge corporation is deciding which cloud provider to use, the decision falls to the IT department, not the transportation department. When Uncle Bob isn't sure which phone to buy, he asks his nephew the programmer instead of his other nephew the geologist. When a reporter writing a tech story is looking through their contacts for someone to call for background, they choose the professor of Computer Operating Systems over the professor of Russian History. When the government is involved in tech litigation, the EFF is there, not the ASPCA. When some tech issue is in Congress, Wikimedia and Mozilla can put it in front of millions of people, not some blogger with a hundred readers. It is usually unwise to disregard the interests of the people with the strongest influence.
    - gaius 9y ago
      When a huge corporation is deciding which cloud provider to use, the decision falls to the IT departmen Cute. The decision is made by an executive based on a magazine article they read on a plane, or on what their buddies on the golf course said, then handed down by diktat to the workers. Same with all outsourcing deals.
      - lovich 9y ago
        Agreed, I can't recall a single instance I have seen where a major purchasing decision was influenced by anything out of the tech portion of the company unless the CEO was from the technical side.
      - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
        > Cute. The decision is made by an executive based on a magazine article they read on a plane, or on what their buddies on the golf course said, then handed down by diktat to the workers. I'm sure that has happened somewhere at least once. But in general what happens is that the executive reads a magazine article about The Cloud and the IT department gets orders to "do cloud" when the executive doesn't even know what that means. So the details fall to IT, like which provider to use. And in the cases where the details are decided by people who don't understand the technology, they'll inevitably choose the wrong things and pay five times too much. Which makes it easy for IT to get a lower quote from the provider they actually want. I mean your argument is essentially that executives are all incompetent and easily swayed by shiny objects and bright colors. But that was sort of the point -- they're as susceptible to being controlled by crafty subordinates as crafty vendors, if not more so.
ProAm 9y ago
> It's time to break up Google. Just like Apple, Facebook and Amazon?
- cisanti 9y ago
  Apple and Amazon actually sell you a product, they are not in the business of selling yourself to others.
  - blowski 9y ago
    Why would that mean they are less deserving of regulation? Microsoft sold products during their regulatory troubles, so did the Rockefeller empire.
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    You see the warning all over the place: "If you aren't paying for the product, you are the product" doesn't mean that if you are paying for the product, you're not the product. This is the first time I've seen someone completely ignore, and even directly contradict, that incredibly common warning.
  - 659087 9y ago
    Amazon both sells you products, and turns you into a product.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Google sells a product, just not to you; they sell to advertisers.
  - daveFNbuck 9y ago
    Amazon does both. https://advertising.amazon.com/ https://advertising.amazon.com/
- wolco 9y ago
  In a few more years. Go after the biggest fish first. Don't forget salesforce, microsoft and oracle.
- 9y ago
perseusprime11 9y ago
Why should we break up Google? We are not living in a communist country, are we?
- YouAreGreat 9y ago
  A "communist country" has rather more monopoly power than Google has today, but why would you wait until the Google States of America are indistinguishable from a communist country (and unassailable) before you break up Google?
  - perseusprime11 9y ago
    Ok! Are you saying Google has more power than our Government?
    - cisanti 9y ago
      They very might have in theory. Other thing is practicing it. Governments understand that too. Who pushes the narrative has the power there is no need for the violent revolution of 1789 style.
pokemongoaway 9y ago
I'm surprised no comments talk about reducing regulation to help this problem too. If it were easier for small ISPs to thrive, then there would be more competition. The question is: how many areas is Google thriving in which are prohibitively expensive to enter due to regulations? Another competing factor is that Google makes most of its money in advertising - so every feature of every product has the opportunity to be compromised for the benefit of advertising. Internet advertising needs another revolution!

AnthonyMouse 9y ago

> Google has lost its cute startup image long time ago and people have realized companies are never out there for the social / greater good, just for profits. It's more than that. Their behavior has changed. Some years ago everyone was on their side because they were fighting for network neutrality and building Google Fiber and supporting Linux and providing Chilling Effects links to notify users of DMCA censorship and generally sticking it to the MPAA/Comcast/Microsoft. These days they're not only not really doing that anymore, now they're misidentifying videos with YouTube Content ID and infecting web standards with EME and tracking everyone much more comprehensively than they used to. People only think you're on their side as long as you continue to do things that show you're on their side.

ino 9y ago
Aren't they also accomplices on the net neutrality attacks? They could stop companies from advertising "free" Youtube if they were for net neutrality. Same goes for Facebook and others, of course. some examples from the 3 big operators in Portugal: http://www.moche.pt/tarifarios/moche-legend/ http://www.moche.pt/tarifarios/moche-legend/ https://www.yorn.net/yorn/tarifario/yornx.html https://www.yorn.net/yorn/tarifario/yornx.html http://www.wtf.pt http://www.wtf.pt
majormajor 9y ago
Those things are what gets HN riled up, but none of those things are noticed or cared about by mass consumer sentiment. That's driven by stuff like political stances, ad and content moderation practices, search result ordering, and other much less technical concerns.
- AnthonyMouse 9y ago
  > Those things are what gets HN riled up, but none of those things are noticed or cared about by mass consumer sentiment. People are always forgetting that tech people are the ones involved in decisions about tech stuff. When a huge corporation is deciding which cloud provider to use, the decision falls to the IT department, not the transportation department. When Uncle Bob isn't sure which phone to buy, he asks his nephew the programmer instead of his other nephew the geologist. When a reporter writing a tech story is looking through their contacts for someone to call for background, they choose the professor of Computer Operating Systems over the professor of Russian History. When the government is involved in tech litigation, the EFF is there, not the ASPCA. When some tech issue is in Congress, Wikimedia and Mozilla can put it in front of millions of people, not some blogger with a hundred readers. It is usually unwise to disregard the interests of the people with the strongest influence.
  - gaius 9y ago
    When a huge corporation is deciding which cloud provider to use, the decision falls to the IT departmen Cute. The decision is made by an executive based on a magazine article they read on a plane, or on what their buddies on the golf course said, then handed down by diktat to the workers. Same with all outsourcing deals.
    - lovich 9y ago
      Agreed, I can't recall a single instance I have seen where a major purchasing decision was influenced by anything out of the tech portion of the company unless the CEO was from the technical side.
    - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
      > Cute. The decision is made by an executive based on a magazine article they read on a plane, or on what their buddies on the golf course said, then handed down by diktat to the workers. I'm sure that has happened somewhere at least once. But in general what happens is that the executive reads a magazine article about The Cloud and the IT department gets orders to "do cloud" when the executive doesn't even know what that means. So the details fall to IT, like which provider to use. And in the cases where the details are decided by people who don't understand the technology, they'll inevitably choose the wrong things and pay five times too much. Which makes it easy for IT to get a lower quote from the provider they actually want. I mean your argument is essentially that executives are all incompetent and easily swayed by shiny objects and bright colors. But that was sort of the point -- they're as susceptible to being controlled by crafty subordinates as crafty vendors, if not more so.

ProAm 9y ago

> It's time to break up Google. Just like Apple, Facebook and Amazon?

cisanti 9y ago
Apple and Amazon actually sell you a product, they are not in the business of selling yourself to others.
- blowski 9y ago
  Why would that mean they are less deserving of regulation? Microsoft sold products during their regulatory troubles, so did the Rockefeller empire.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  You see the warning all over the place: "If you aren't paying for the product, you are the product" doesn't mean that if you are paying for the product, you're not the product. This is the first time I've seen someone completely ignore, and even directly contradict, that incredibly common warning.
- 659087 9y ago
  Amazon both sells you products, and turns you into a product.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Google sells a product, just not to you; they sell to advertisers.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  Amazon does both. https://advertising.amazon.com/ https://advertising.amazon.com/
wolco 9y ago
In a few more years. Go after the biggest fish first. Don't forget salesforce, microsoft and oracle.
9y ago

perseusprime11 9y ago

Why should we break up Google? We are not living in a communist country, are we?

YouAreGreat 9y ago
A "communist country" has rather more monopoly power than Google has today, but why would you wait until the Google States of America are indistinguishable from a communist country (and unassailable) before you break up Google?
- perseusprime11 9y ago
  Ok! Are you saying Google has more power than our Government?
  - cisanti 9y ago
    They very might have in theory. Other thing is practicing it. Governments understand that too. Who pushes the narrative has the power there is no need for the violent revolution of 1789 style.

pokemongoaway 9y ago

I'm surprised no comments talk about reducing regulation to help this problem too. If it were easier for small ISPs to thrive, then there would be more competition. The question is: how many areas is Google thriving in which are prohibitively expensive to enter due to regulations? Another competing factor is that Google makes most of its money in advertising - so every feature of every product has the opportunity to be compromised for the benefit of advertising. Internet advertising needs another revolution!