4 ms·

It’s not a meme. I just interviewed at FB (3 onsites) and the one interview that sunk me was a CS-algo question. I’ve never had to do that my entire career and

by jquery 9y ago

It’s not a meme. I just interviewed at FB (3 onsites) and the one interview that sunk me was a CS-algo question. I’ve never had to do that my entire career and I even though I got the answer in the end, I was told afterwards that my answer was too slow. The other tech interviews focused on real web dev experience I destroyed. Still got rejected even though I answered every question correctly, just not fast (or optimal?) enough. The recruiter said I was a “great culture fit” afterwards so that wasn’t the issue. You wouldn’t consider the question “trivia” because it was something you might do once or twice in an entire web dev career. But it’s still a question that will favor new grads who have been trained to pattern match algos and share questions amongst each other. So even if there’s not explicit bias against older devs there is implicit bias by favoring quick whiteboard speed (memorization/practice) over the practiced thoughtfulness of older devs. And a one-off interview focused heavily on algos can sink anyone. It only takes one. This isn’t limited to FB. The $Elite companies I got offers from are the ones where I lucked through that one tricky interview by knowing it offhand. I worry as I get older, even as I become a stronger developer, I will become less and less able to marathon through these interviews. No wonder so many older devs switch to management.

vkou 9y ago
There's a world of difference between remember some bullshit trivia about how to do fast matrix multiplication, that requires some esoteric algorithmic or mathematical trick, and 'implement a data structure that does X'. Yet, when blasting interviews, I have found that people tend to conflate the two. I agree that 60 minutes on a whiteboard or a laptop is not the best way to ask someone to solve a coding problem. Homework is worse, though. Maybe 90 minutes is a better time slot.
- jquery 9y ago
  There’s a middle ground between those two which usually ends up being the one tricky question—there’s only one right answer and the task is something non-straightforward. I find junior devs to be far more likely to ask this type of question.
- chrisco255 9y ago
  How is homework worse? Homework simulates an actual job assignment. There's no better way to gauge a candidate's ability. You still couple with onsite after, of course.
  - vkou 9y ago
    It's an asymmetrical waste of time. The company invests nothing into it, the candidate invests 8-16 hours into it. This creates incentive to interview too many people, causing candidates to have to interview at too many places, wasting even more of their time. At least in-person, both parties invest about as much time into the interview.
    - wincy 9y ago
      I interviewed somewhere recently, it went well, we talked about current technology, talked about the projects I'm working on now, and then they sent me an email asking me to do a project that would take me two days. I have a two year old and a job I'm perfectly happy with right now, I'm not going to spend my precious weekend hours writing code for free (unless maybe it was open source or something like that).
      - chrisco255 9y ago
        Are y'all trying to say that an 8-16 hour homework assignment is too much to bear for a new job? You're happy in your current job...great. But 8 hours for a $10-$30K salary bump? I mean, worth it from a pure monetary standpoint, even if it takes several attempts to attain one of those jobs.
        jakebasile 9y ago
        The article is about age discrimination and my comment pointed out that older developers may value their “off time” more, which biases take home tests against those older devs.
        9y ago
0xC0DECAFE2020 9y ago
I have no issue with the DS/A questions myself, but their use use and arbitrary nature of acceptance as right or wrong coupled with the ability of the interviewer's own bias to take it in whichever direction they desire is full of land mines. And I had never thought of ease with which the process could be undermined even if it where to be improved.

by jquery 9y ago

vkou 9y ago

There's a world of difference between remember some bullshit trivia about how to do fast matrix multiplication, that requires some esoteric algorithmic or mathematical trick, and 'implement a data structure that does X'. Yet, when blasting interviews, I have found that people tend to conflate the two. I agree that 60 minutes on a whiteboard or a laptop is not the best way to ask someone to solve a coding problem. Homework is worse, though. Maybe 90 minutes is a better time slot.

jquery 9y ago
There’s a middle ground between those two which usually ends up being the one tricky question—there’s only one right answer and the task is something non-straightforward. I find junior devs to be far more likely to ask this type of question.
chrisco255 9y ago
How is homework worse? Homework simulates an actual job assignment. There's no better way to gauge a candidate's ability. You still couple with onsite after, of course.
- vkou 9y ago
  It's an asymmetrical waste of time. The company invests nothing into it, the candidate invests 8-16 hours into it. This creates incentive to interview too many people, causing candidates to have to interview at too many places, wasting even more of their time. At least in-person, both parties invest about as much time into the interview.
  - wincy 9y ago
    I interviewed somewhere recently, it went well, we talked about current technology, talked about the projects I'm working on now, and then they sent me an email asking me to do a project that would take me two days. I have a two year old and a job I'm perfectly happy with right now, I'm not going to spend my precious weekend hours writing code for free (unless maybe it was open source or something like that).
    - chrisco255 9y ago
      Are y'all trying to say that an 8-16 hour homework assignment is too much to bear for a new job? You're happy in your current job...great. But 8 hours for a $10-$30K salary bump? I mean, worth it from a pure monetary standpoint, even if it takes several attempts to attain one of those jobs.
      - jakebasile 9y ago
        The article is about age discrimination and my comment pointed out that older developers may value their “off time” more, which biases take home tests against those older devs.
        9y ago

0xC0DECAFE2020 9y ago

I have no issue with the DS/A questions myself, but their use use and arbitrary nature of acceptance as right or wrong coupled with the ability of the interviewer's own bias to take it in whichever direction they desire is full of land mines. And I had never thought of ease with which the process could be undermined even if it where to be improved.