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Basically I don't see any target value for bitcoins and there's no bubble since this is a once upon a life time opportunity. Basically since number of bitcoins

Basically I don't see any target value for bitcoins and there's no bubble since this is a once upon a life time opportunity. Basically since number of bitcoins will be limited - total value of all bitcoins must be a fraction to total human wealth. Tech leaders and SV have strongly stood behind bitcoin and blockchain with convincing arguments, and put their credibility behind it and each day by increasing valuation of Bitcoin they prove why tech matters on this planet. Edit: /S If a bubble forms and people's finances get hurt, that'll have very negative effect on the credibility of SV and tech sadly.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago
> convincing arguments well, not really Don't get me wrong, blockchain tech is really amazing. But whether it has an actual use in the real world is very much TBD.
jonknee 9y ago
> Basically since number of bitcoins will be limited - total value of all bitcoins must be a fraction to total human wealth. Or they could be worth nothing?
- kovek 9y ago
  Are there no valuable use cases with Bitcoin?
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    Arguably it has actually become less useful in the last few years, in that the transaction fees that you actually need to get a transaction through in realistic time have skyrocketed. And I gather it's beginning to be displaced on the tor drug markets.
  - jonknee 9y ago
    It seems to be not very useful as a currency (transaction costs are surging, it's slow, can't scale, etc etc) and instead has proven much more useful as a vehicle for every sketchy investment scheme you can imagine. I think blockchain as an idea is more valuable than Bitcoin as an idea. But that's me.
  - companyhen 9y ago
    I know fees are higher now, but a big use case could potentially be people sending money to friends/family overseas. They're much lower fees comparing them to Western Union. Saw that in the Banking on Bitcoin documentary on Netflix, I recommend watching!
    - jonknee 9y ago
      Possibly lower fees than existing solutions, but you have to factor in converting currencies, crossing the bid ask spread twice on different exchanges and the risk of volatility during the transaction. If you want a low cost transfer you're much better off using something like TransferWise.
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  0 is a fraction of total human wealth.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    A fraction is defined as a quantity that is not a whole number. (Going by Google's "define: fraction") Is zero a whole number?
lord_jim 9y ago
The value of bitcoin, as with other currencies, is the value people believe it holds. More concretely, this would be the value of goods or services you can exchange it for today, and/or the future value you believe the currency will hold. Your argument reminds me of a classic eBay seller problem: you can price your rare collectables however you want, but if no one is buying, they are worthless
- appleflaxen 9y ago
  you are exactly right, but all the same criticisms apply to fiat. the difference between fiat and bitcoin is that bitcoin cannot be arbitrarily manipulated by the state. there is a fairly large, latent inflationary pressure on the dollar in the form of the national debt that has no credible prospect of reversing. the dollar has been a historical safe haven, but there is a reason that china is trying madly to diversify its foreign currency reserves.
  - vkou 9y ago
    The difference between fiat and bitcoin is that neither the IRS, nor my landlord, want to be paid in bitcoin. There is a large, guaranteed demand for fiat, in the form of taxes. Everyone you transact with, at the end of the year, pays taxes. There is no large demand for bitcoin as a currency. There is demand for bitcoin as a store of value. It's economy is largely speculative.
- thefalcon 9y ago
  And if people are buying them for $5000 last month and $6000 this month...?
empath75 9y ago
> "Basically I don't see any target value for bitcoins except that there's no bubble since this is a once upon a life time opportunity" Why? I can start my own blockchain tomorrow, and so can anyone else. If people perceive bitcoin distribution as being fundamentally unfair, they can just stop using it and switch to the some other crypto currency.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago

> convincing arguments well, not really Don't get me wrong, blockchain tech is really amazing. But whether it has an actual use in the real world is very much TBD.

jonknee 9y ago

> Basically since number of bitcoins will be limited - total value of all bitcoins must be a fraction to total human wealth. Or they could be worth nothing?

kovek 9y ago
Are there no valuable use cases with Bitcoin?
- rsynnott 9y ago
  Arguably it has actually become less useful in the last few years, in that the transaction fees that you actually need to get a transaction through in realistic time have skyrocketed. And I gather it's beginning to be displaced on the tor drug markets.
- jonknee 9y ago
  It seems to be not very useful as a currency (transaction costs are surging, it's slow, can't scale, etc etc) and instead has proven much more useful as a vehicle for every sketchy investment scheme you can imagine. I think blockchain as an idea is more valuable than Bitcoin as an idea. But that's me.
- companyhen 9y ago
  I know fees are higher now, but a big use case could potentially be people sending money to friends/family overseas. They're much lower fees comparing them to Western Union. Saw that in the Banking on Bitcoin documentary on Netflix, I recommend watching!
  - jonknee 9y ago
    Possibly lower fees than existing solutions, but you have to factor in converting currencies, crossing the bid ask spread twice on different exchanges and the risk of volatility during the transaction. If you want a low cost transfer you're much better off using something like TransferWise.
Jtsummers 9y ago
0 is a fraction of total human wealth.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  A fraction is defined as a quantity that is not a whole number. (Going by Google's "define: fraction") Is zero a whole number?

lord_jim 9y ago

The value of bitcoin, as with other currencies, is the value people believe it holds. More concretely, this would be the value of goods or services you can exchange it for today, and/or the future value you believe the currency will hold. Your argument reminds me of a classic eBay seller problem: you can price your rare collectables however you want, but if no one is buying, they are worthless

appleflaxen 9y ago
you are exactly right, but all the same criticisms apply to fiat. the difference between fiat and bitcoin is that bitcoin cannot be arbitrarily manipulated by the state. there is a fairly large, latent inflationary pressure on the dollar in the form of the national debt that has no credible prospect of reversing. the dollar has been a historical safe haven, but there is a reason that china is trying madly to diversify its foreign currency reserves.
- vkou 9y ago
  The difference between fiat and bitcoin is that neither the IRS, nor my landlord, want to be paid in bitcoin. There is a large, guaranteed demand for fiat, in the form of taxes. Everyone you transact with, at the end of the year, pays taxes. There is no large demand for bitcoin as a currency. There is demand for bitcoin as a store of value. It's economy is largely speculative.
thefalcon 9y ago
And if people are buying them for $5000 last month and $6000 this month...?

empath75 9y ago

> "Basically I don't see any target value for bitcoins except that there's no bubble since this is a once upon a life time opportunity" Why? I can start my own blockchain tomorrow, and so can anyone else. If people perceive bitcoin distribution as being fundamentally unfair, they can just stop using it and switch to the some other crypto currency.