4 ms·

And the deer overpopulation also contributes to the Lyme disease tick problem.

zaroth 9y ago
Which we have a perfectly good vaccine for but it was shelved purely out of FUD! http://legacy.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine http://legacy.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine
- ghaff 9y ago
  "Perfectly good" is an overstatement. Efficacy wasn't that great (80% or so) and there was some evidence of side effects. Overall, the vaccine should almost certainly have not been taken off the market but it's not a near-perfect vaccine vs. FUD story either. See, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    You may not need a higher efficacy, herd immunity does not require 100%. Chart of herd immunity thresholds for some diseases: https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/image-02-large.jpg https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/im...
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      Lyme disease isn't passed from human to human so herd immunity is irrelevant.
      - sliverstorm 9y ago
        My mistake, I thought it was a vaccine for the deer.
        mark-r 9y ago
        As I understand it the vector is mice, not deer. There's a correlation between mouse populations where the juveniles feed and Lyme disease outbreaks 2 years later when the adults latch onto humans.
      - delbel 9y ago
        lyme disease can be passed human to human as a std or the womb from mother to child
        dayofthedaleks 9y ago
        (citation needed)
        RickDT 9y ago
        Lyme disease is NOT sexually transmitted. https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/index.html
    - gbrown 9y ago
      oh_sigh is correct, humans are a dead end host for lyme. It's primarily maintained in a mouse reservoir - the larval and nymph ticks feed on infected mice, and then the nymph and adult ticks can expose humans and deer. Deer are not really a big reservoir either, since mostly adult ticks feed on them, but they do move ticks around. Edit: you can actually try to vaccinate the reservoir, however: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523510 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523510
  - Alex3917 9y ago
    > Overall, the vaccine should almost certainly have not been taken off the market It's no longer patented so nothing is stopping you from selling it if you think there's a market.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Read "should not" as it's unfortunate that potential legal issues around Lymerix were such that a vaccine was a losing business proposition. In general, human vaccines aren't a great opportunity for pharma companies--to the point where they're protected against liability for common vaccines.
- delbel 9y ago
  it was recalled because it was causing damages. the article is wrong. they found that body tissues has similar protein structures as the target for the vaccine, and left some people in wheel chairs. there are some developments for an improved vaccine but not out yet.

Which we have a perfectly good vaccine for but it was shelved purely out of FUD! http://legacy.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine http://legacy.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine

ghaff 9y ago
"Perfectly good" is an overstatement. Efficacy wasn't that great (80% or so) and there was some evidence of side effects. Overall, the vaccine should almost certainly have not been taken off the market but it's not a near-perfect vaccine vs. FUD story either. See, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  You may not need a higher efficacy, herd immunity does not require 100%. Chart of herd immunity thresholds for some diseases: https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/image-02-large.jpg https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/im...
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Lyme disease isn't passed from human to human so herd immunity is irrelevant.
    - sliverstorm 9y ago
      My mistake, I thought it was a vaccine for the deer.
      - mark-r 9y ago
        As I understand it the vector is mice, not deer. There's a correlation between mouse populations where the juveniles feed and Lyme disease outbreaks 2 years later when the adults latch onto humans.
    - delbel 9y ago
      lyme disease can be passed human to human as a std or the womb from mother to child
      - dayofthedaleks 9y ago
        (citation needed)
      - RickDT 9y ago
        Lyme disease is NOT sexually transmitted. https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/index.html
  - gbrown 9y ago
    oh_sigh is correct, humans are a dead end host for lyme. It's primarily maintained in a mouse reservoir - the larval and nymph ticks feed on infected mice, and then the nymph and adult ticks can expose humans and deer. Deer are not really a big reservoir either, since mostly adult ticks feed on them, but they do move ticks around. Edit: you can actually try to vaccinate the reservoir, however: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523510 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523510
- Alex3917 9y ago
  > Overall, the vaccine should almost certainly have not been taken off the market It's no longer patented so nothing is stopping you from selling it if you think there's a market.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Read "should not" as it's unfortunate that potential legal issues around Lymerix were such that a vaccine was a losing business proposition. In general, human vaccines aren't a great opportunity for pharma companies--to the point where they're protected against liability for common vaccines.
delbel 9y ago
it was recalled because it was causing damages. the article is wrong. they found that body tissues has similar protein structures as the target for the vaccine, and left some people in wheel chairs. there are some developments for an improved vaccine but not out yet.