4 ms·

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOFtSG6nDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOFtSG6nDo https://boards.themarriagebed.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=66810 https://bo

by Mz 9y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOFtSG6nDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOFtSG6nDo https://boards.themarriagebed.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=66810 https://boards.themarriagebed.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=66810 Female alertness is impaired in a way that male alertness is not. Some women literally lose consciousness during orgasm. The video is a short clip. It is likely exactly the piece I saw on TV once.

PeterStuer 9y ago
"during orgasm" is the key point here, so relevance to the situation seems far-sought.
- Mz 9y ago
  I am female. I have firsthand experience with the arousal process. But, you know, just have your LOLs because sex is giggle-worthy. Firsthand experience of a woman plus MRI based research conclusions be damned. I think I am done here. You boys just have fun with this. Never mind that it is a serious topic, and, yes, I meant it and I have cited my source. (Though my wording was imperfect. A better phrasing would be that women lose cognitive functions that men do not lose, which is what I intended. I still think it is bad form to openly mock the point, especially given the subject matter under discussion.) To whomever downvoted me: This is a discussion of rape and sexual assault. Multiple men have been openly mocking of me here en masse. It is completely disrespectful. You downvoting my annoyed reply to that makes you very much part of the problem here.
  - soneca 9y ago
    I upvoted you because I believe your points are fair. But I must say that, unless people edited their comments, I didnt ser any mocking. I see people challenging your statement. I also don't think the History channel show is a respectable source. So, as I see it, this source is not a convincing argument to who is challenging your statements. But, if people were really mocking you, I completely agree it is inadequate and disrespectful
    - Mz 9y ago
      The person I annoyedly replied to also wrote this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15514621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15514621 Context matters. Given the subject matter and the overwhelming male majority here, this is the sort of thing that creates a hostile atmosphere. The history channel did not do the study. I don't see how the channel is all that relevant, frankly. It stuck with me because it resonates with my experience and with what I have observed. But, I don't think I care to discuss it further given what has already occurred here. I don't think it is at all appropriate for a group of men to so completely dismiss what a woman has to say about female sexuality. That is just ugly and it really is the sort of thing that is commonly described with the phrase rape culture.
      - soneca 9y ago
        I saw that comment and downvoted it, but I thought you were referring to the parent comments of this particular reply. I do believe that the channel is relevant though, when I cant see the primary source. I consider your personal experience, even if necessarily anedoctal, a more respectable foundation to your argument (that's the part I considered fair). I hope you see that as evidence that this group of men is not homogenous in its behavior and it is not completely dismissing your point.
        Mz 9y ago
        I am not going to re-watch the video. They said the study was done in the Netherlands. I suspect the video contains enough info to try to track down the source of that matters to you. I spent a lot of time in therapy. I had a relationship to a man with a degree in psychology and another man who was involved in sex counseling. I have read a lot on the topic. I don't generally try to claim those qualifications because the outcome is usually problematic. Men just read that as "slut!" for a woman to profess any particular interest in or knowledge of how sexuality works. Men don't generally have the same issue.
      - icebraining 9y ago
        The history channel did not do the study. I don't see how the channel is all that relevant, frankly. Unfortunately, TV and other media often misportray scientific studies. I'm not saying that's what has happened here, just that I can sympathize the skepticism against the channel. If I didn't already know you are a women, and that therefore you have personal experience, I'd be skeptical too. Thanks for sharing it, by the way. HN is extremely biased on a male perspective, your voice here is important, even if often disregarded.
mercer 9y ago
This actually kind of upends my assumptions, and I just realized that this is not the first time. My assumption was that 'men follow their dicks' more than women follow their equivalent sexual organs. But truthfully I've experienced plenty of situations that disagree with that conclusion. Tentatively I'd say that while men do seem 'follow their dicks' in a more obvious way, my experience is that once women cross a certain threshold they do just the same, and perhaps even in a more extreme way (which psychologically is a rather obvious dynamic). Again, that's a tentative conclusion. At the very least I've definitely had to let go of the idea that men are more likely than women to let 'horniness' get in the way of sound judgment. It's just such a strong narrative that I forget sometimes.
- Mz 9y ago
  My conclusion is that women generally value "love" and a serious relationship over casual encounters because a somewhat high degree of trust is a prerequisite for female orgasm to occur. So, when a woman is trying to arrange a relationship, she is really just trying to get off. It just isn't as readily apparent as the male process because the timeframe is longer and the process is more convoluted.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    If "love" is "a somewhat high degree of trust" then how do you explain attraction to risky or "bad boy" men?
    - digi_owl 9y ago
      "Fitness" (in the survival of the fittest sense) i guess is the overall theme. And confusingly, the choice of "bad" men may change depending on how close to ovulation the lady is.
    - Mz 9y ago
      I think the answer to that is long and complicated. But a couple of things readily come to mind: First, since sex is inherently dangerous for a long list of reasons, I suspect humans will never entirely escape an association between danger and attraction/sexiness. Second, bad boys aren't necessarily a threat to her. Instead, they can very well be a threat to the control other people wish to exercise over her. If "good girls don't," then a "bad boy" can be the solution. In some sense, he takes the blame for her "bad behavior" of getting her sexual needs met. Bad boys are often men who do not respect the social norm that if a woman is in a relationship, she is off limits, not out of respect for her, but out of respect for her man's property rights. A bad boy who treats a woman like an actual human being in her own right, and social norms be damned, can be not only a good partner, but the best antidote to some really toxic social norms. The assumption that societally labeled "bad boys" are really bad people is a pretty one dimensional view of a very complicated thing.
caractacus 9y ago
I am not laughing at you. I can't see how what some women experience at the point of orgasm has anything at all to do with what happens during a sexual assault or our social expectations of behaviour. > I strongly suspect this element is a significant factor in many social norms that establish different expectations for male and female sexual behavior. Please explain. Just saying "I am female" doesn't help here. I want to understand your position. From another comment you made: > My conclusion is that women generally value "love" and a serious relationship over casual encounters because a somewhat high degree of trust is a prerequisite for female orgasm to occur. > So, when a woman is trying to arrange a relationship, she is really just trying to get off. It just isn't as readily apparent as the male process because the timeframe is longer and the process is more convoluted. These sentences don't seem to follow in my mind. Maybe one person is mocking you with the LOL. They're an idiot. Ignore them. Perhaps the rest of us just don't seem able to follow your argument. I'm afraid I can't. You're not being dismissed. I just find what you are saying hard to understand.
- Mz 9y ago
  It is about 4:30 am where I am. I should be asleep, but I am failing to sleep. So, I am not at my best here and most of the replies to me in this particular thread have been far from ideal. But here is my take on it: I have spent a great many years trying to understand my own sexuality through the lens of "what is different about male and female sexuality?" Men like porn. Women like erotica. This is a gender difference. I don't think this is a gender difference that it makes any sense to attribute to socialization. I did a ton of therapy. I have spent a lot of years dismantling whatever cultural programming I had surrounding my sexuality. It still doesn't work like male sexuality. If a woman loses alertness that a man does not, she is more vulnerable during sex than a man is in some very important ways. So she needs to trust that man in ways he does not need to trust her. This is compounded by the average size and strength difference. Trust gets perceived through emotion. A high degree of trust and experience of being treated especially well gets experienced as romantic love. Women are looking for "love." I think we do this because we need to be in a safe relationship to let loose and experience orgasm. I think this is a factor in why women are so much more likely than men to have trouble reaching orgasm. I was frigid in my youth. I have firsthand experience with overcoming that. Trusting a man was a critical ingredient. I married that man. A lot of women wind up obsessing about things like wedding details. I think this is a symbolic representation of love and commitment. If what you get off on is emotional bonding and trust, how do you represent that in your own mind? Porn and erotic book covers aimed at the female market face substantial challenges in determining how you represent what women want. I puzzled over it myself for a long time. Various men that I had an emotional connection to but never actually met in person helped me sort this out. So my remarks grow out of decades of studying the topic and trying to figure out what makes my own sexuality work. I hate that loss of cognitive function. I need to really trust a man to accept it. In the absence of trust, no, I can't get off. The mental walls don't drop. Orgasm is a non starter. Societal norms expect women to be more conservative, more "moral" and to meet tests like "save it for marriage." Societal norms are much more cavalier about casual sex being okay for men. I think there are biological differences driving these social norms. Pregnancy is one. This brain difference is another. I don't know if that is at all clear. But I am stopping there. I need to attempt to sleep.

by Mz 9y ago

PeterStuer 9y ago

"during orgasm" is the key point here, so relevance to the situation seems far-sought.

Mz 9y ago
I am female. I have firsthand experience with the arousal process. But, you know, just have your LOLs because sex is giggle-worthy. Firsthand experience of a woman plus MRI based research conclusions be damned. I think I am done here. You boys just have fun with this. Never mind that it is a serious topic, and, yes, I meant it and I have cited my source. (Though my wording was imperfect. A better phrasing would be that women lose cognitive functions that men do not lose, which is what I intended. I still think it is bad form to openly mock the point, especially given the subject matter under discussion.) To whomever downvoted me: This is a discussion of rape and sexual assault. Multiple men have been openly mocking of me here en masse. It is completely disrespectful. You downvoting my annoyed reply to that makes you very much part of the problem here.
- soneca 9y ago
  I upvoted you because I believe your points are fair. But I must say that, unless people edited their comments, I didnt ser any mocking. I see people challenging your statement. I also don't think the History channel show is a respectable source. So, as I see it, this source is not a convincing argument to who is challenging your statements. But, if people were really mocking you, I completely agree it is inadequate and disrespectful
  - Mz 9y ago
    The person I annoyedly replied to also wrote this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15514621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15514621 Context matters. Given the subject matter and the overwhelming male majority here, this is the sort of thing that creates a hostile atmosphere. The history channel did not do the study. I don't see how the channel is all that relevant, frankly. It stuck with me because it resonates with my experience and with what I have observed. But, I don't think I care to discuss it further given what has already occurred here. I don't think it is at all appropriate for a group of men to so completely dismiss what a woman has to say about female sexuality. That is just ugly and it really is the sort of thing that is commonly described with the phrase rape culture.
    - soneca 9y ago
      I saw that comment and downvoted it, but I thought you were referring to the parent comments of this particular reply. I do believe that the channel is relevant though, when I cant see the primary source. I consider your personal experience, even if necessarily anedoctal, a more respectable foundation to your argument (that's the part I considered fair). I hope you see that as evidence that this group of men is not homogenous in its behavior and it is not completely dismissing your point.
      - Mz 9y ago
        I am not going to re-watch the video. They said the study was done in the Netherlands. I suspect the video contains enough info to try to track down the source of that matters to you. I spent a lot of time in therapy. I had a relationship to a man with a degree in psychology and another man who was involved in sex counseling. I have read a lot on the topic. I don't generally try to claim those qualifications because the outcome is usually problematic. Men just read that as "slut!" for a woman to profess any particular interest in or knowledge of how sexuality works. Men don't generally have the same issue.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      The history channel did not do the study. I don't see how the channel is all that relevant, frankly. Unfortunately, TV and other media often misportray scientific studies. I'm not saying that's what has happened here, just that I can sympathize the skepticism against the channel. If I didn't already know you are a women, and that therefore you have personal experience, I'd be skeptical too. Thanks for sharing it, by the way. HN is extremely biased on a male perspective, your voice here is important, even if often disregarded.

mercer 9y ago

This actually kind of upends my assumptions, and I just realized that this is not the first time. My assumption was that 'men follow their dicks' more than women follow their equivalent sexual organs. But truthfully I've experienced plenty of situations that disagree with that conclusion. Tentatively I'd say that while men do seem 'follow their dicks' in a more obvious way, my experience is that once women cross a certain threshold they do just the same, and perhaps even in a more extreme way (which psychologically is a rather obvious dynamic). Again, that's a tentative conclusion. At the very least I've definitely had to let go of the idea that men are more likely than women to let 'horniness' get in the way of sound judgment. It's just such a strong narrative that I forget sometimes.

Mz 9y ago
My conclusion is that women generally value "love" and a serious relationship over casual encounters because a somewhat high degree of trust is a prerequisite for female orgasm to occur. So, when a woman is trying to arrange a relationship, she is really just trying to get off. It just isn't as readily apparent as the male process because the timeframe is longer and the process is more convoluted.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  If "love" is "a somewhat high degree of trust" then how do you explain attraction to risky or "bad boy" men?
  - digi_owl 9y ago
    "Fitness" (in the survival of the fittest sense) i guess is the overall theme. And confusingly, the choice of "bad" men may change depending on how close to ovulation the lady is.
  - Mz 9y ago
    I think the answer to that is long and complicated. But a couple of things readily come to mind: First, since sex is inherently dangerous for a long list of reasons, I suspect humans will never entirely escape an association between danger and attraction/sexiness. Second, bad boys aren't necessarily a threat to her. Instead, they can very well be a threat to the control other people wish to exercise over her. If "good girls don't," then a "bad boy" can be the solution. In some sense, he takes the blame for her "bad behavior" of getting her sexual needs met. Bad boys are often men who do not respect the social norm that if a woman is in a relationship, she is off limits, not out of respect for her, but out of respect for her man's property rights. A bad boy who treats a woman like an actual human being in her own right, and social norms be damned, can be not only a good partner, but the best antidote to some really toxic social norms. The assumption that societally labeled "bad boys" are really bad people is a pretty one dimensional view of a very complicated thing.

caractacus 9y ago

I am not laughing at you. I can't see how what some women experience at the point of orgasm has anything at all to do with what happens during a sexual assault or our social expectations of behaviour. > I strongly suspect this element is a significant factor in many social norms that establish different expectations for male and female sexual behavior. Please explain. Just saying "I am female" doesn't help here. I want to understand your position. From another comment you made: > My conclusion is that women generally value "love" and a serious relationship over casual encounters because a somewhat high degree of trust is a prerequisite for female orgasm to occur. > So, when a woman is trying to arrange a relationship, she is really just trying to get off. It just isn't as readily apparent as the male process because the timeframe is longer and the process is more convoluted. These sentences don't seem to follow in my mind. Maybe one person is mocking you with the LOL. They're an idiot. Ignore them. Perhaps the rest of us just don't seem able to follow your argument. I'm afraid I can't. You're not being dismissed. I just find what you are saying hard to understand.

Mz 9y ago
It is about 4:30 am where I am. I should be asleep, but I am failing to sleep. So, I am not at my best here and most of the replies to me in this particular thread have been far from ideal. But here is my take on it: I have spent a great many years trying to understand my own sexuality through the lens of "what is different about male and female sexuality?" Men like porn. Women like erotica. This is a gender difference. I don't think this is a gender difference that it makes any sense to attribute to socialization. I did a ton of therapy. I have spent a lot of years dismantling whatever cultural programming I had surrounding my sexuality. It still doesn't work like male sexuality. If a woman loses alertness that a man does not, she is more vulnerable during sex than a man is in some very important ways. So she needs to trust that man in ways he does not need to trust her. This is compounded by the average size and strength difference. Trust gets perceived through emotion. A high degree of trust and experience of being treated especially well gets experienced as romantic love. Women are looking for "love." I think we do this because we need to be in a safe relationship to let loose and experience orgasm. I think this is a factor in why women are so much more likely than men to have trouble reaching orgasm. I was frigid in my youth. I have firsthand experience with overcoming that. Trusting a man was a critical ingredient. I married that man. A lot of women wind up obsessing about things like wedding details. I think this is a symbolic representation of love and commitment. If what you get off on is emotional bonding and trust, how do you represent that in your own mind? Porn and erotic book covers aimed at the female market face substantial challenges in determining how you represent what women want. I puzzled over it myself for a long time. Various men that I had an emotional connection to but never actually met in person helped me sort this out. So my remarks grow out of decades of studying the topic and trying to figure out what makes my own sexuality work. I hate that loss of cognitive function. I need to really trust a man to accept it. In the absence of trust, no, I can't get off. The mental walls don't drop. Orgasm is a non starter. Societal norms expect women to be more conservative, more "moral" and to meet tests like "save it for marriage." Societal norms are much more cavalier about casual sex being okay for men. I think there are biological differences driving these social norms. Pregnancy is one. This brain difference is another. I don't know if that is at all clear. But I am stopping there. I need to attempt to sleep.