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It's surprisingly easy to switch to the English layout. As a programmer, it was refreshing to leave behind the convoluted key combinations while coding. (I'm lo

It's surprisingly easy to switch to the English layout. As a programmer, it was refreshing to leave behind the convoluted key combinations while coding. (I'm looking at you, `tilde`, on a Hungarian keyboard) On Linux, writing accents using a compose key isn't much slower than typing the letters directly either.

einr 9y ago
Scandinavian languages do not really have accented letters, though. What we have in Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are three more letters than the English alphabet, with distinct sound and meaning, that happen to look a bit like accented A's and O's. These letters are very common in our languages and a without them would be nigh unusable; like a keyboard without V, P or B (these letters have similar frequency in Swedish)
- vidarh 9y ago
  I'm Norwegian, and what I've found is that I prefer a US keyboard layout for coding, and only switch to a Norwegian layout when writing Norwegian. Especially given that æøå are generally using the triangle right of p and l, and so messing with my brackets and braces. I remember those well enough that I have no reason to have them on the keyboard, which doesn't make it particularly inconvenient not to have them on the keys, and I can always switch to US layout with a quick keyboard combo if I need a character I don't remember the position of on Norwegian layout. Of course, it helps that I live in the UK where the layout differences between US/UK keyboards are minor, so I'm not particularly inconvenienced when I have to use someone else's keyboard - if I lived in Norway I'd probably have stuck to a Norwegian layout.
- ploek 9y ago
  As a German living in Sweden, I've switched to EURkey[1]. That way I don't have to give up the Swedish å or the German ü and ß. And I have a US base layout, which makes coding easier. [1] https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/layout.html https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/layout.html
scoopr 9y ago
For programming, yes, it might even be beneficial to use the US layout, and I've even used FI keyboard with US layout for longer stretches of time. But for communicating with own language, not quite as useful. I guess I could just not do that ;)
- otron 9y ago
  I use the "mac" variant option for the US QWERTY layout (`setxkbmap us -variant mac`). This functions as a regular US QWERTY layout, but I've access to various "special" characters and latin extended characters (e.g. æåøœ¡), as well as ^'"`~ as dead keys (to create îûéèñũäüö or whatever) via a modifier key (I use alt, but you can set it to whatever). This allows me to use a single functional keyboard layout to write English, Norwegian _and_ code in.
- mpartel 9y ago
  I made https://github.com/mpartel/ee-altgr-keymap https://github.com/mpartel/ee-altgr-keymap which is essentially the US layout plus AltGr+A -> ä AltGr+O -> ö You could easily add å if you want.
oelmekki 9y ago
I've considered a few times switching to a qwerty (from french azerty), but there are two things that made me pull back: 1. french people I know who use qwerty tend to not write any accentuated characters anymore. I'm ready to accept compose keys are usable, but it clearly seems to encourage incorrect spelling when you use a language with a lot of accentuated characters in a sentence 2. vim. I really don't see myself fighting to remap my habits and workflows, given what I perceive as very few benefits switching layout would provide
- lmm 9y ago
  > I'm ready to accept compose keys are usable, but it clearly seems to encourage incorrect spelling when you use a language with a lot of accentuated characters in a sentence I don't think it's at all clear, because most people don't have a compose key - only linux does that. > vim. I really don't see myself fighting to remap my habits and workflows, given what I perceive as very few benefits switching layout would provide Being able to use a default vim is very useful, and the default vim is qwerty-oriented. (It took me a long time to learn to use hjkl on Dvorak).
- hiq 9y ago
  1. If you care about your spelling, you just need to find the right layout (which would be "English (international AltGr dead keys)" on Debian), then it's almost as easy as the azerty keyboard: é : altgr + e ` : altgr + ` (then the letter) ¨ : shift + altgr + ' (then the letter) ^ : altgr + 6 (then the letter) If I remember correctly it's slightly easier to type é and è on an azerty keyboard, but not that much. 2. vim is qwerty centric, the best example for me was using CTRL-[ instead of ESC which actually makes sense on a qwerty but not on an azerty. It doesn't take that much time to learn new habits. Overall, I would advise against changing your layout unless there's another good reason. I decided to switch because I was using many computers with a qwerty layout, and only my personal computer was still with an azerty layout. It sounded more productive to just have one layout instead of having to think about it.
  - oelmekki 9y ago
    Well, I guess it's a matter of preference, then, because I definitely feel like having to press 3 keys instead of one is indeed a problem when you have to do it four or five times per sentence :) A side note, btw, regarding CTRL-[ : it seems not to be well known, and it doesn't work on things that use "alt" to access file menu (like gvim), but using alt + <normal mode key> in insert mode instantly drops to normal mode and execute that key. For example, I usually leave insert mode by doing A-j or A-h, I never hit the ESC key. My favorite trick is `A-e a` when inside parenthesis to jump just after it and still be in insert mode, like when writing parameters to a function and jumping out of parameters list to add the `{` character.

einr 9y ago

Scandinavian languages do not really have accented letters, though. What we have in Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are three more letters than the English alphabet, with distinct sound and meaning, that happen to look a bit like accented A's and O's. These letters are very common in our languages and a without them would be nigh unusable; like a keyboard without V, P or B (these letters have similar frequency in Swedish)

vidarh 9y ago
I'm Norwegian, and what I've found is that I prefer a US keyboard layout for coding, and only switch to a Norwegian layout when writing Norwegian. Especially given that æøå are generally using the triangle right of p and l, and so messing with my brackets and braces. I remember those well enough that I have no reason to have them on the keyboard, which doesn't make it particularly inconvenient not to have them on the keys, and I can always switch to US layout with a quick keyboard combo if I need a character I don't remember the position of on Norwegian layout. Of course, it helps that I live in the UK where the layout differences between US/UK keyboards are minor, so I'm not particularly inconvenienced when I have to use someone else's keyboard - if I lived in Norway I'd probably have stuck to a Norwegian layout.
ploek 9y ago
As a German living in Sweden, I've switched to EURkey[1]. That way I don't have to give up the Swedish å or the German ü and ß. And I have a US base layout, which makes coding easier. [1] https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/layout.html https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/layout.html

scoopr 9y ago

For programming, yes, it might even be beneficial to use the US layout, and I've even used FI keyboard with US layout for longer stretches of time. But for communicating with own language, not quite as useful. I guess I could just not do that ;)

otron 9y ago
I use the "mac" variant option for the US QWERTY layout (`setxkbmap us -variant mac`). This functions as a regular US QWERTY layout, but I've access to various "special" characters and latin extended characters (e.g. æåøœ¡), as well as ^'"`~ as dead keys (to create îûéèñũäüö or whatever) via a modifier key (I use alt, but you can set it to whatever). This allows me to use a single functional keyboard layout to write English, Norwegian _and_ code in.
mpartel 9y ago
I made https://github.com/mpartel/ee-altgr-keymap https://github.com/mpartel/ee-altgr-keymap which is essentially the US layout plus AltGr+A -> ä AltGr+O -> ö You could easily add å if you want.

oelmekki 9y ago

I've considered a few times switching to a qwerty (from french azerty), but there are two things that made me pull back: 1. french people I know who use qwerty tend to not write any accentuated characters anymore. I'm ready to accept compose keys are usable, but it clearly seems to encourage incorrect spelling when you use a language with a lot of accentuated characters in a sentence 2. vim. I really don't see myself fighting to remap my habits and workflows, given what I perceive as very few benefits switching layout would provide

lmm 9y ago
> I'm ready to accept compose keys are usable, but it clearly seems to encourage incorrect spelling when you use a language with a lot of accentuated characters in a sentence I don't think it's at all clear, because most people don't have a compose key - only linux does that. > vim. I really don't see myself fighting to remap my habits and workflows, given what I perceive as very few benefits switching layout would provide Being able to use a default vim is very useful, and the default vim is qwerty-oriented. (It took me a long time to learn to use hjkl on Dvorak).
hiq 9y ago
1. If you care about your spelling, you just need to find the right layout (which would be "English (international AltGr dead keys)" on Debian), then it's almost as easy as the azerty keyboard: é : altgr + e ` : altgr + ` (then the letter) ¨ : shift + altgr + ' (then the letter) ^ : altgr + 6 (then the letter) If I remember correctly it's slightly easier to type é and è on an azerty keyboard, but not that much. 2. vim is qwerty centric, the best example for me was using CTRL-[ instead of ESC which actually makes sense on a qwerty but not on an azerty. It doesn't take that much time to learn new habits. Overall, I would advise against changing your layout unless there's another good reason. I decided to switch because I was using many computers with a qwerty layout, and only my personal computer was still with an azerty layout. It sounded more productive to just have one layout instead of having to think about it.
- oelmekki 9y ago
  Well, I guess it's a matter of preference, then, because I definitely feel like having to press 3 keys instead of one is indeed a problem when you have to do it four or five times per sentence :) A side note, btw, regarding CTRL-[ : it seems not to be well known, and it doesn't work on things that use "alt" to access file menu (like gvim), but using alt + <normal mode key> in insert mode instantly drops to normal mode and execute that key. For example, I usually leave insert mode by doing A-j or A-h, I never hit the ESC key. My favorite trick is `A-e a` when inside parenthesis to jump just after it and still be in insert mode, like when writing parameters to a function and jumping out of parameters list to add the `{` character.