5 ms·

Swipe Left: Privacy Practices of Online Dating Apps

46 points by benbreen 9y ago

rdtsc 9y ago
Wonder if Zoosk in light of this article will check their audit logs and see who accessed Roya's profile internally then cross reference with employee onboarding dates then fire the employee.
- dyarosla 9y ago
  Wonder if a Zoosk employee will read this comment and proceed to doing just that because of it.
- CPLX 9y ago
  I wonder if Zoosk has audit logs.
- homero 9y ago
  Who's roya
  - rdtsc 9y ago
    > Who's roya Roya Pakzad, the article's author. Her name is right at the top of the article we are discussing.
Lewton 9y ago
Tinder actually let's you verify with a phonenumber instead of a facebook profile now. Or at least they claim to
wolco 9y ago
How in the world is logging in using facebook more secure than email. People can create a facebook account people can create an email. Author is fooled into false sense of security around facebook profiles. A facebook account can be just as fake as an email address.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  The App company is piggybacking on Facebook's spam prevention algorithms instead of implementing or purchasing their own.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Years ago, once in a blue moon having a Facebook account meant you also had a @facebook.com e-mail address [1] [1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/facebook-email_n_4852924.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/facebook-email_n_4...
- mandelbrotwurst 9y ago
  While that is correct, and I would also personally prefer that we continued to use e-mail based authentication for other reasons, Facebook does have measures in place now that make it more difficult to create loads of fake accounts. Specifically, they now require a phone number to create an account. Getting a new phone number is more difficult than creating an e-mail address, so this will prevent at least some of the fakes.
jijji 9y ago
its harder to create email accounts than it is facebook accounts, lately
dl904 9y ago
Privacy practices of "Swipe Left: Privacy Practices of Online Dating Apps": After clicking on this article, Google, Facebook and LinkedIn will know that you are interested in the privacy practices of online dating apps. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use: Facebook collects user data to create profiles that... Google... LinkedIn... Data Retention: Facebook... . . --Sending HTTP requests to Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn results in the collection of this metadata and possibly data by your national and possibly foreign government surveillance organizations... ---Data retention by your national surveillance organization...:
- untog 9y ago
  How will Facebook know I viewed a page which has no FB tracking on it? I didn't see a Like button.
  - dl904 9y ago
    The website is sending out a request to connect.facebook.net As a rough estimate, maybe 90% of the top 10,000 websites will send out (multiple) HTTP(S) requests to Google and Facebook from your browser.
- ozpri 9y ago
  I'm sure this is true, but what if you leverage something like PiHole and browser extensions like Privacy badger or uBlock? Surely, these offer some tangible protection against this kind of sharing?
  - rhizome 9y ago
    "Did you see what their browser was wearing? No wonder."
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
analogic 9y ago
Sigh, being paranoid bout this stuff makes it really hard to get laid :/ "Screw [dating app] lets meet with this cryptographically anonymous app instead" seems like a tough sell for most women tho.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > "Screw [dating app] lets meet with this cryptographically anonymous app instead" seems like a tough sell for most women tho. "Sure, but please prepare a cryptographically signed recent lab report showing you've tested negative for all STDs. It would be best if the report was on blockchain."
  - analogic 9y ago
    think i heard a few yc applications just get filed
the_stc 9y ago
Our app has a somewhat Tinder-like feel, though it's paid (escorts). I don't want to go overboard plugging, so see my profile for details. For fun, here's how we score on the article's items: 1. No scammers. We require providers to be vetted in some way (references). Clients are going to need to provide screening to see providers. 2-A. We use our custom login system. Verifying your social media account is just a read-once thing we do; we don't ever have access to post. In fact, it is unlikely we'd even get approved for an API key on most platforms. 2-B. For launch we're pretty exclusionary :(. Focusing on cishet couplings, female provider. We're going to address that as soon as possible. Queer sex workers face additional challenges for sure. 3. Data safety. Due to our company's legal status (extrajurisdictional), we have to deeply hide all data. Our servers don't have persistent storage, RAM only. (At boot, it's a manual restore from something like Tarsnap.) Only a few people have root or raw DB access. This does not include most devops people - they go through a change approval process. Real access is limited to core members heavily vested in the company with a need-to-know. More at [1], please ignore the clickbait title. Another key point: connectivity is heavily restricted. App servers only have inbound socket from their hidden service, plus outbound to the DB layer hidden service. DB layer only has that inbound socket. DB requests are rate limited globally plus per user. 4. We'll wipe your data shortly after deactivation if there are no abuse reports on your account. In which case we keep a photo ID and birthdate so you can't sign up again and get a clean record. This is needed to protect user's safety. But at least a photo is not so readily searchable. Maybe Facebook can do it, but if we were to somehow 1: https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-anonymity-and-other-techniques-815ee21c6da4 https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-ano...
- odammit 9y ago
  Uh- That is a really cool article you shared. Very impressive stuff. Would love to read a write up on: > Our servers don't have persistent storage, RAM only. (At boot, it's a manual restore from something like Tarsnap.)
  - the_stc 9y ago
    We may write up more when we have things stably working after a while. But we are very cautious mentioning any specific tools, as that gives attackers a head-start. We won't mention OS, stack, DB, etc. But think something like secure boot, serve up a basic image, download full image from provisioning servers, turn on DB, restore from backups.
bogomipz 9y ago
Possibly concerning as well is it looks like Tinder outsources their databases to a third party provider: https://blog.rackspace.com/tinder-swipes-right-for-rackspace-managed-cloud https://blog.rackspace.com/tinder-swipes-right-for-rackspace...
gcb0 9y ago
this is extremely basic, obvious, and probably below the technical level I'd expect from a HN fp item :( it opens suggesting an insider's view, and then just list obvious trivia.
cporios 9y ago
Very relevant paper: "Hardened dildo.io, A Cryptographically Secure, Usable Matchmaking Service" https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.857/2016/files/13.pdf https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.857/2016/files/13.pdf I've actually implemented this paper in a hackathon, but we never launched it. It's basically like tinder, but no central server has access to anyone's likes. Yet, by using homomorphic encryption and a calculation performed on the server (through which no information is revealed), you can know if someone you liked likes you back. It's pretty cool!

46 points by benbreen 9y ago

Wonder if Zoosk in light of this article will check their audit logs and see who accessed Roya's profile internally then cross reference with employee onboarding dates then fire the employee.

dyarosla 9y ago
Wonder if a Zoosk employee will read this comment and proceed to doing just that because of it.
CPLX 9y ago
I wonder if Zoosk has audit logs.
homero 9y ago
Who's roya
- rdtsc 9y ago
  > Who's roya Roya Pakzad, the article's author. Her name is right at the top of the article we are discussing.

Lewton 9y ago

Tinder actually let's you verify with a phonenumber instead of a facebook profile now. Or at least they claim to

wolco 9y ago

How in the world is logging in using facebook more secure than email. People can create a facebook account people can create an email. Author is fooled into false sense of security around facebook profiles. A facebook account can be just as fake as an email address.

djsumdog 9y ago
The App company is piggybacking on Facebook's spam prevention algorithms instead of implementing or purchasing their own.
Fnoord 9y ago
Years ago, once in a blue moon having a Facebook account meant you also had a @facebook.com e-mail address [1] [1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/facebook-email_n_4852924.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/facebook-email_n_4...
mandelbrotwurst 9y ago
While that is correct, and I would also personally prefer that we continued to use e-mail based authentication for other reasons, Facebook does have measures in place now that make it more difficult to create loads of fake accounts. Specifically, they now require a phone number to create an account. Getting a new phone number is more difficult than creating an e-mail address, so this will prevent at least some of the fakes.

jijji 9y ago

its harder to create email accounts than it is facebook accounts, lately

dl904 9y ago

Privacy practices of "Swipe Left: Privacy Practices of Online Dating Apps": After clicking on this article, Google, Facebook and LinkedIn will know that you are interested in the privacy practices of online dating apps. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use: Facebook collects user data to create profiles that... Google... LinkedIn... Data Retention: Facebook... . . --Sending HTTP requests to Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn results in the collection of this metadata and possibly data by your national and possibly foreign government surveillance organizations... ---Data retention by your national surveillance organization...:

untog 9y ago
How will Facebook know I viewed a page which has no FB tracking on it? I didn't see a Like button.
- dl904 9y ago
  The website is sending out a request to connect.facebook.net As a rough estimate, maybe 90% of the top 10,000 websites will send out (multiple) HTTP(S) requests to Google and Facebook from your browser.
ozpri 9y ago
I'm sure this is true, but what if you leverage something like PiHole and browser extensions like Privacy badger or uBlock? Surely, these offer some tangible protection against this kind of sharing?
- rhizome 9y ago
  "Did you see what their browser was wearing? No wonder."

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

analogic 9y ago

Sigh, being paranoid bout this stuff makes it really hard to get laid :/ "Screw [dating app] lets meet with this cryptographically anonymous app instead" seems like a tough sell for most women tho.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> "Screw [dating app] lets meet with this cryptographically anonymous app instead" seems like a tough sell for most women tho. "Sure, but please prepare a cryptographically signed recent lab report showing you've tested negative for all STDs. It would be best if the report was on blockchain."
- analogic 9y ago
  think i heard a few yc applications just get filed

the_stc 9y ago

Our app has a somewhat Tinder-like feel, though it's paid (escorts). I don't want to go overboard plugging, so see my profile for details. For fun, here's how we score on the article's items: 1. No scammers. We require providers to be vetted in some way (references). Clients are going to need to provide screening to see providers. 2-A. We use our custom login system. Verifying your social media account is just a read-once thing we do; we don't ever have access to post. In fact, it is unlikely we'd even get approved for an API key on most platforms. 2-B. For launch we're pretty exclusionary :(. Focusing on cishet couplings, female provider. We're going to address that as soon as possible. Queer sex workers face additional challenges for sure. 3. Data safety. Due to our company's legal status (extrajurisdictional), we have to deeply hide all data. Our servers don't have persistent storage, RAM only. (At boot, it's a manual restore from something like Tarsnap.) Only a few people have root or raw DB access. This does not include most devops people - they go through a change approval process. Real access is limited to core members heavily vested in the company with a need-to-know. More at [1], please ignore the clickbait title. Another key point: connectivity is heavily restricted. App servers only have inbound socket from their hidden service, plus outbound to the DB layer hidden service. DB layer only has that inbound socket. DB requests are rate limited globally plus per user. 4. We'll wipe your data shortly after deactivation if there are no abuse reports on your account. In which case we keep a photo ID and birthdate so you can't sign up again and get a clean record. This is needed to protect user's safety. But at least a photo is not so readily searchable. Maybe Facebook can do it, but if we were to somehow 1: https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-anonymity-and-other-techniques-815ee21c6da4 https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-ano...

odammit 9y ago
Uh- That is a really cool article you shared. Very impressive stuff. Would love to read a write up on: > Our servers don't have persistent storage, RAM only. (At boot, it's a manual restore from something like Tarsnap.)
- the_stc 9y ago
  We may write up more when we have things stably working after a while. But we are very cautious mentioning any specific tools, as that gives attackers a head-start. We won't mention OS, stack, DB, etc. But think something like secure boot, serve up a basic image, download full image from provisioning servers, turn on DB, restore from backups.

bogomipz 9y ago

Possibly concerning as well is it looks like Tinder outsources their databases to a third party provider: https://blog.rackspace.com/tinder-swipes-right-for-rackspace-managed-cloud https://blog.rackspace.com/tinder-swipes-right-for-rackspace...

gcb0 9y ago

this is extremely basic, obvious, and probably below the technical level I'd expect from a HN fp item :( it opens suggesting an insider's view, and then just list obvious trivia.

cporios 9y ago

Very relevant paper: "Hardened dildo.io, A Cryptographically Secure, Usable Matchmaking Service" https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.857/2016/files/13.pdf https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.857/2016/files/13.pdf I've actually implemented this paper in a hackathon, but we never launched it. It's basically like tinder, but no central server has access to anyone's likes. Yet, by using homomorphic encryption and a calculation performed on the server (through which no information is revealed), you can know if someone you liked likes you back. It's pretty cool!