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I 100% agree. I also felt compelled to mention that I've witnessed men making what I have felt are creepy comments / moves on women and they've actually worked

I 100% agree. I also felt compelled to mention that I've witnessed men making what I have felt are creepy comments / moves on women and they've actually worked (in that they received positive responses from the woman). Life is complex.

Mz 9y ago
Abusive men often target women who have been previously abused. A woman who has been previously treated badly may not readily recognize a nicer expression of sexual interest. They still have sexual and emotional needs. So, they hook up with the men that they are able to comprehend as actively interested. Yes, it is complicated. But, the receptivity of some women mostly goes to show how deep the problem goes and how pervasive it is.
- fgjjgutjvnu 9y ago
  So basically, you know better than those other people (women) what is good for them. Sure thing.
- Yizahi 9y ago
  If you are attractive(1) and treat women badly vs. if you are not attractive and has "normal" personality - guess whom women will choose. :) (1) meaning whole person - physical appearance, voice, gestures etc.
Frondo 9y ago
You see a guy making a creepy move, you call him out. Simple as that. You don't know if it's "working" because she's trying to keep him at ease til she can dash for the door, or why. See shitty, harassing, abusive behavior, call it out. For too long, we all let this stand. No more. Risk your job, risk short-term awkwardness, risk whatever because the women in the world deserve better than being targets while we stand around like cowards.
- EwanToo 9y ago
  Pretty sad that you've been voted down for this...
- rimliu 9y ago
  After #meetoo I was thinking how many someones' "how we met" stories would be #metoo stories, if parties had different view about each other. Alas, sometimes a difference between creepy and cute depends solely if the guy is attractive or not.
  - jacalata 9y ago
    It is certainly possible to meet women in a way that is unambiguously not creepy, and you could always aim for that if you have trouble with where the line is.
    - rimliu 9y ago
      > in a way that is unambiguously not creepy Alas, no. When even simply looking (and I mean it, looking, not staring) can be classified as creepy you cannot be sure any more.
      - Frondo 9y ago
        It's not, and that's a bullshit response. No woman is saying "a man glanced at me and I felt harassed". They're asking not to be groped, not to have kisses forced on them, not to be raped. This "simply looking" comment is fucking garbage, and you need to readjust your perspective and attitudes.
        dang 9y ago
        Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines like this? Someone else being wrong doesn't mean the rules don't apply to you. Your comment would be much better, more powerful and convincing with just the second and third sentences. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Mz 9y ago

Abusive men often target women who have been previously abused. A woman who has been previously treated badly may not readily recognize a nicer expression of sexual interest. They still have sexual and emotional needs. So, they hook up with the men that they are able to comprehend as actively interested. Yes, it is complicated. But, the receptivity of some women mostly goes to show how deep the problem goes and how pervasive it is.

fgjjgutjvnu 9y ago
So basically, you know better than those other people (women) what is good for them. Sure thing.
Yizahi 9y ago
If you are attractive(1) and treat women badly vs. if you are not attractive and has "normal" personality - guess whom women will choose. :) (1) meaning whole person - physical appearance, voice, gestures etc.

Frondo 9y ago

You see a guy making a creepy move, you call him out. Simple as that. You don't know if it's "working" because she's trying to keep him at ease til she can dash for the door, or why. See shitty, harassing, abusive behavior, call it out. For too long, we all let this stand. No more. Risk your job, risk short-term awkwardness, risk whatever because the women in the world deserve better than being targets while we stand around like cowards.

EwanToo 9y ago
Pretty sad that you've been voted down for this...
rimliu 9y ago
After #meetoo I was thinking how many someones' "how we met" stories would be #metoo stories, if parties had different view about each other. Alas, sometimes a difference between creepy and cute depends solely if the guy is attractive or not.
- jacalata 9y ago
  It is certainly possible to meet women in a way that is unambiguously not creepy, and you could always aim for that if you have trouble with where the line is.
  - rimliu 9y ago
    > in a way that is unambiguously not creepy Alas, no. When even simply looking (and I mean it, looking, not staring) can be classified as creepy you cannot be sure any more.
    - Frondo 9y ago
      It's not, and that's a bullshit response. No woman is saying "a man glanced at me and I felt harassed". They're asking not to be groped, not to have kisses forced on them, not to be raped. This "simply looking" comment is fucking garbage, and you need to readjust your perspective and attitudes.
      - dang 9y ago
        Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines like this? Someone else being wrong doesn't mean the rules don't apply to you. Your comment would be much better, more powerful and convincing with just the second and third sentences. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html