5 ms·

I love it. They're literally trying things that have never been done before. Look, at the end of the day, these drivers can just as easily 1) go to lyft, or 2)

I love it. They're literally trying things that have never been done before. Look, at the end of the day, these drivers can just as easily 1) go to lyft, or 2) get a "real" job. And Uber can't afford for either to happen. This is pure capitalism, pure economics, pure financial calculations. We'll see how it works out, and they'll probably drop it at some point, but hell, let's give it a shot. If it's as "terrible" as everyone is bitching about, it won't hold up. What's your problem?

peatmoss 9y ago
> What's your problem? My problem is that Uber has a bunch of venture capital that it can use to entice and entrap vulnerable populations into an exploitative relationship. It's only "pure capitalism" if one has a shockingly naive view of economics that ignores all of the preconditions that are required for a free market. For example, information symmetry, which is laughably not true given that Uber controls the dispatching with algorithms that are opaque to drivers. As time approaches infinity, yes, I believe the market will sort out many issues with Uber. In the meantime, I think they have the potential to grind up and spit out many people.
- ryanmarsh 9y ago
  "Capitalism" and "free markets" are not the same thing, in fact they are in contention with each other. The natural end of pure capitalism is monopoly and exploitation of labor. I think you might have an idealistic view of what these words mean. Currently, both are on display in all their glory. You think Uber drivers don't know what the other apps pay?
- notliketherest 9y ago
  "it can use to entice and entrap vulnerable populations into an exploitative relationship" And here's the root of the matter - the belief that individuals shouldn't be expected to stand on their own two feet, to critically think, to judge with reason, and be held accountable for their actions. Indeed, the belief that these people are UNABLE to take care of themselves, and to use reason to make personal, individual decisions. Well, I believe that freedom means the ability to voluntarily engage in transactions, with the full weight of responsibility on the individual not to be an idiot. I voted Republican - let me guess what party you voted for.
  - mistercow 9y ago
    You had the start of a decent point, and then you ruined it by getting insultingly political.
  - rhcom2 9y ago
    You can't avoid being exploited by just "not being an idiot". There is a huge power and information imbalance between an individual and a company that has been used to exploit labor so much labor unions had to form to stop it. There's no reason to add partisan flamebait either.
  - eropple 9y ago
    Please explain to me how "voluntarily engaging in transactions" works when Mr. Hobson is dealing the cards.
- vixen99 9y ago
  Patronizing! Don't we produce adults who can make their own rational choices anymore? On second thoughts, perhaps not and I'm wrong. [ In 2010, a UK government study concluded that 1 in 5 people between the ages of 16 and 19 (some of the voters of today), were functionally illiterate and innumerate. This in one of the richest countries in the world. I doubt the figures look any better now ]
  - alex_hitchins 9y ago
    What choices do these people really have though?
thisisit 9y ago
> Look, at the end of the day, these drivers can just as easily 1) go to lyft, But does lyft have the capacity to take on huge number of uber drivers? Given the gap in revenue numbers it looks unlikely.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
The "market will fix everything eventually" crowd never seem to think much about all the people who get steamrolled before "eventually".
- notzorbo3 9y ago
  Thinking the "market will fix everything eventually" is like thinking democracy will eventually fix a dictatorship.
- ewjordan 9y ago
  Do you think removing the option of working for Uber would make things better for the steamrolled? If so, then why are they choosing to work for Uber instead of doing whatever they'd be doing if Uber wasn't around? Are you saying that they're stupid or being tricked? If not, then isn't the world a better place for those people with Uber as an option?
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Simply because of the tragedy of the commons. These people would have worked as taxi driver before, often with better compensation and job security. But as soon as one person offers rates that are cheaper, all of them have to, or they won't get anything. Uber drives competition between the employees, and as result, they all get less. Simple economics. And also the reason that only unions and government regulation can ensure acceptable work conditions
    - malandrew 9y ago
      No, they wouldn't have worked as taxi drivers. Maybe 1/10 of them would have ponied up the money for a medallion (assuming some corporations didn't already purchase many of the medallions in the market to be able to extract rent). The rest however would have one fewer option. Taxi drivers have earn like 30% less relative to before Uber, but there are 10 times more drivers that now earn about the same as the taxi drivers. That's a massive net growth of opportunities to earn money.
ehnto 9y ago
Your two assumptions are that it is easy to change your job, and that if it's exploitive and "terrible" Uber will stop. Neither of those are good assumptions. Although I think I am on board with this being a really interesting experiment, even if it might become a morbid fascination it is definitely interesting.
sidcool 9y ago
That is a typical Silicon valley attitude. That's a part of the problem.
walshemj 9y ago
Actually #2 get a real job for a lot of the people that work for uber is not that easy as they are probably recent immigrants with no qualifications and probably poor English skils

peatmoss 9y ago

> What's your problem? My problem is that Uber has a bunch of venture capital that it can use to entice and entrap vulnerable populations into an exploitative relationship. It's only "pure capitalism" if one has a shockingly naive view of economics that ignores all of the preconditions that are required for a free market. For example, information symmetry, which is laughably not true given that Uber controls the dispatching with algorithms that are opaque to drivers. As time approaches infinity, yes, I believe the market will sort out many issues with Uber. In the meantime, I think they have the potential to grind up and spit out many people.

ryanmarsh 9y ago
"Capitalism" and "free markets" are not the same thing, in fact they are in contention with each other. The natural end of pure capitalism is monopoly and exploitation of labor. I think you might have an idealistic view of what these words mean. Currently, both are on display in all their glory. You think Uber drivers don't know what the other apps pay?
notliketherest 9y ago
"it can use to entice and entrap vulnerable populations into an exploitative relationship" And here's the root of the matter - the belief that individuals shouldn't be expected to stand on their own two feet, to critically think, to judge with reason, and be held accountable for their actions. Indeed, the belief that these people are UNABLE to take care of themselves, and to use reason to make personal, individual decisions. Well, I believe that freedom means the ability to voluntarily engage in transactions, with the full weight of responsibility on the individual not to be an idiot. I voted Republican - let me guess what party you voted for.
- mistercow 9y ago
  You had the start of a decent point, and then you ruined it by getting insultingly political.
- rhcom2 9y ago
  You can't avoid being exploited by just "not being an idiot". There is a huge power and information imbalance between an individual and a company that has been used to exploit labor so much labor unions had to form to stop it. There's no reason to add partisan flamebait either.
- eropple 9y ago
  Please explain to me how "voluntarily engaging in transactions" works when Mr. Hobson is dealing the cards.
vixen99 9y ago
Patronizing! Don't we produce adults who can make their own rational choices anymore? On second thoughts, perhaps not and I'm wrong. [ In 2010, a UK government study concluded that 1 in 5 people between the ages of 16 and 19 (some of the voters of today), were functionally illiterate and innumerate. This in one of the richest countries in the world. I doubt the figures look any better now ]
- alex_hitchins 9y ago
  What choices do these people really have though?

thisisit 9y ago

> Look, at the end of the day, these drivers can just as easily 1) go to lyft, But does lyft have the capacity to take on huge number of uber drivers? Given the gap in revenue numbers it looks unlikely.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

The "market will fix everything eventually" crowd never seem to think much about all the people who get steamrolled before "eventually".

notzorbo3 9y ago
Thinking the "market will fix everything eventually" is like thinking democracy will eventually fix a dictatorship.
ewjordan 9y ago
Do you think removing the option of working for Uber would make things better for the steamrolled? If so, then why are they choosing to work for Uber instead of doing whatever they'd be doing if Uber wasn't around? Are you saying that they're stupid or being tricked? If not, then isn't the world a better place for those people with Uber as an option?
- kuschku 9y ago
  Simply because of the tragedy of the commons. These people would have worked as taxi driver before, often with better compensation and job security. But as soon as one person offers rates that are cheaper, all of them have to, or they won't get anything. Uber drives competition between the employees, and as result, they all get less. Simple economics. And also the reason that only unions and government regulation can ensure acceptable work conditions
  - malandrew 9y ago
    No, they wouldn't have worked as taxi drivers. Maybe 1/10 of them would have ponied up the money for a medallion (assuming some corporations didn't already purchase many of the medallions in the market to be able to extract rent). The rest however would have one fewer option. Taxi drivers have earn like 30% less relative to before Uber, but there are 10 times more drivers that now earn about the same as the taxi drivers. That's a massive net growth of opportunities to earn money.

ehnto 9y ago

Your two assumptions are that it is easy to change your job, and that if it's exploitive and "terrible" Uber will stop. Neither of those are good assumptions. Although I think I am on board with this being a really interesting experiment, even if it might become a morbid fascination it is definitely interesting.

sidcool 9y ago

That is a typical Silicon valley attitude. That's a part of the problem.

walshemj 9y ago

Actually #2 get a real job for a lot of the people that work for uber is not that easy as they are probably recent immigrants with no qualifications and probably poor English skils