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Citation needed, please. If you're right about that position - about firearms instruction - I'll gladly apologise, and withdraw my support for ESR as a non-rac

Citation needed, please. If you're right about that position - about firearms instruction - I'll gladly apologise, and withdraw my support for ESR as a non-racist.

tptacek 9y ago
Will a screenshot suffice? I don't know whether he scrubbed his blog or just managed to get it deindexed (it's apparently been hacked at least twice in the past few weeks and he's not sure how, only that it's getting re-hacked after he installs new strong passwords) and there's a limit to how much work I'll put into securing an apology, but if you'll take my word for the authenticity of a screenshot I captured and posted myself --- and you should --- then here you go: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/816449724127608833 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/816449724127608833 Also, and with the maximum sincerity it is possible to imbue an HN comment with, from the bottom of my heart? Fuck that guy.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  I never saw that before, but it's consistent with his past words and behavior. Since duncan asked for citations: Here's ESR having a tantrum and throwing down the gauntlet during Russ Nelson's "Blacks are lazy" scandal that embarassed OSI and rocked the open source community: he insisted OSI get into a mud-fight against political correctness, and he called people in the open source community who disagreed with Russ's "Blacks are lazy" blog posting "fools and thugs": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russ_Nelson#Blacks_are_lazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russ_Nelson#Blacks_are_la... Note that although Russell withdrew the article, and admitted it was badly written, Eric S. Raymond is on the record as having defended it by accusing people asking Russell to step down as being "fools and thugs". Note that "thug" has been called a "dog whistle" term for "n*gger". https://aattp.org/thug-just-a-dog-whistle-for-n-word-says-nfl-star-richard-sherman/ https://aattp.org/thug-just-a-dog-whistle-for-n-word-says-nf... http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-OSI-President-Steps-Down/#sthash.EJtgGdxJ.dpuf http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-OSI-Presi... Eric S. Raymond wrote: “The people who knew Russ as a Quaker, a pacifist and a gentleman, and no racist, but nevertheless pressured OSI to do the responsible thing and fire him in order to avoid political damage should be equally ashamed,” Raymond said. “Abetting somebody elses witch hunt is no less disgusting than starting your own.” “Personally, I wanted to fight this on principle,” Raymond said. “Russ resigned the presidency rather than get OSI into that fight, and the board quite properly respected his wishes in the matter. That sacrifice makes me angrier at the fools and thugs who pulled him down.” http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson/journal/98015 http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson/journal/98015
  - tptacek 9y ago
    I mean, that clip is kind of the tip of the iceberg with ESR's published record here. And it's not just anti-black and anti-Latino racism; here's another choice example: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/769730601872044032 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/769730601872044032 We could go on for quite some time about women if we really wanted. Or we could just look to the front page of his blog, where he's posted a long, arduous defense of "casting couch" sexual harassment.
    - DonHopkins 9y ago
      https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/780839196231630848 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/780839196231630848 Jesus fuck. You read that stuff regularly??! I would throw out my blue highlighter after marking that up. I haven't read any of his filth in years -- he's gotten much worse than I remember. It looks like he's metastasized.
DonHopkins 9y ago
Please, you have google, use it! Don't pollute this discussion with links to his site, or quotes of his words. Maybe Iran dispatched a death squad to kill him, as revenge for the time that he threatened Bruce Peren's life. Wooooooooo!!! Be careful: you can laugh yourself to death reading his blog. http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/bruce-perens-dead http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/bruce-perens-dead https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/1999/04/msg00623.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/1999/04/msg00623.html
- tptacek 9y ago
  I think you might be surprised by how many people are surprised about this aspect of ESR.
mercer 9y ago
Considering the replies to this comment, could you either point out how they're inaccurate, or alternatively apologize and withdraw your support for ESR as a non-racist?
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  On many of the points he raises, no - they're not racist, they're factually correct, and point (IMO) to socio-economic and cultural problems. For example, the known issue about measured IQ in the black population being > 1 std dev less than the mean for the rest of the USA. Having read through the material posted, though, it's clear he supports the idea of racial profiling and similar; literally judging individuals in part by their membership of a racial group, which is the very definition of racism. I'm in the process of penning a blog post which will go into this in more detail, and which I'll invite him to comment on. I like to think (Don Hopkins' fearful warnings to the contrary) that he is a mostly reasonable person who could be convinced to change his opinion. It will also contain a strong rebuttal of his points around agency and consent in the casting couch article, which are dangerously wrong. So yes. With the caveat that it applies to only a subset of his stated opinions on race - I apologise and withdraw.
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    I'm also waiting for you to retract and apologize for your outrageous and disproven claim parroting ESR's lie that "affirmative action is racism!!!1!". You incorrectly said "Affirmative action _is_ racism, by definition, assuming you mean by that: basing your decision to hire in part on race." That is wrong. Very wrong. It proves you have absolutely no clue what racism is, and the incorrect definition you're parroting and spreading is white supremacist propaganda. I quoted a paragraph from an article that put into words why you are so very wrong. But you did not respond. It's very telling what you choose to ignore. What is your response to the fact that you deeply misunderstand what racism is, and what is your excuse for believing and spreading that noxious ignorant racist white supremacist propaganda that originated from Eric Raymond's blog? Once that's settled, we can go on to discuss which of his lies about global warming you also believe and parrot. Good luck in your quest to cure ESR of his racism, misogyny and narcissism. Maybe only you can solve that problem. Once you find just the right words to shut him up and make him look at himself and reflect on what he's said and done and feel remorse, and then you actually get him to read them, pay attention and respond without attacking and dismissing you, then maybe you should dedicate your efforts to curing Donald Trump, too. And Scoble could also use some of your help, too. So get started, good luck with that, and let us know how it goes! ;)

Citation needed, please. If you're right about that position - about firearms instruction - I'll gladly apologise, and withdraw my support for ESR as a non-racist.

tptacek 9y ago

Will a screenshot suffice? I don't know whether he scrubbed his blog or just managed to get it deindexed (it's apparently been hacked at least twice in the past few weeks and he's not sure how, only that it's getting re-hacked after he installs new strong passwords) and there's a limit to how much work I'll put into securing an apology, but if you'll take my word for the authenticity of a screenshot I captured and posted myself --- and you should --- then here you go: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/816449724127608833 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/816449724127608833 Also, and with the maximum sincerity it is possible to imbue an HN comment with, from the bottom of my heart? Fuck that guy.

DonHopkins 9y ago
I never saw that before, but it's consistent with his past words and behavior. Since duncan asked for citations: Here's ESR having a tantrum and throwing down the gauntlet during Russ Nelson's "Blacks are lazy" scandal that embarassed OSI and rocked the open source community: he insisted OSI get into a mud-fight against political correctness, and he called people in the open source community who disagreed with Russ's "Blacks are lazy" blog posting "fools and thugs": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russ_Nelson#Blacks_are_lazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russ_Nelson#Blacks_are_la... Note that although Russell withdrew the article, and admitted it was badly written, Eric S. Raymond is on the record as having defended it by accusing people asking Russell to step down as being "fools and thugs". Note that "thug" has been called a "dog whistle" term for "n*gger". https://aattp.org/thug-just-a-dog-whistle-for-n-word-says-nfl-star-richard-sherman/ https://aattp.org/thug-just-a-dog-whistle-for-n-word-says-nf... http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-OSI-President-Steps-Down/#sthash.EJtgGdxJ.dpuf http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-OSI-Presi... Eric S. Raymond wrote: “The people who knew Russ as a Quaker, a pacifist and a gentleman, and no racist, but nevertheless pressured OSI to do the responsible thing and fire him in order to avoid political damage should be equally ashamed,” Raymond said. “Abetting somebody elses witch hunt is no less disgusting than starting your own.” “Personally, I wanted to fight this on principle,” Raymond said. “Russ resigned the presidency rather than get OSI into that fight, and the board quite properly respected his wishes in the matter. That sacrifice makes me angrier at the fools and thugs who pulled him down.” http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson/journal/98015 http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson/journal/98015
- tptacek 9y ago
  I mean, that clip is kind of the tip of the iceberg with ESR's published record here. And it's not just anti-black and anti-Latino racism; here's another choice example: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/769730601872044032 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/769730601872044032 We could go on for quite some time about women if we really wanted. Or we could just look to the front page of his blog, where he's posted a long, arduous defense of "casting couch" sexual harassment.
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/780839196231630848 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/780839196231630848 Jesus fuck. You read that stuff regularly??! I would throw out my blue highlighter after marking that up. I haven't read any of his filth in years -- he's gotten much worse than I remember. It looks like he's metastasized.

DonHopkins 9y ago

Please, you have google, use it! Don't pollute this discussion with links to his site, or quotes of his words. Maybe Iran dispatched a death squad to kill him, as revenge for the time that he threatened Bruce Peren's life. Wooooooooo!!! Be careful: you can laugh yourself to death reading his blog. http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/bruce-perens-dead http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/bruce-perens-dead https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/1999/04/msg00623.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/1999/04/msg00623.html

tptacek 9y ago
I think you might be surprised by how many people are surprised about this aspect of ESR.

mercer 9y ago

Considering the replies to this comment, could you either point out how they're inaccurate, or alternatively apologize and withdraw your support for ESR as a non-racist?

duncan_bayne 9y ago
On many of the points he raises, no - they're not racist, they're factually correct, and point (IMO) to socio-economic and cultural problems. For example, the known issue about measured IQ in the black population being > 1 std dev less than the mean for the rest of the USA. Having read through the material posted, though, it's clear he supports the idea of racial profiling and similar; literally judging individuals in part by their membership of a racial group, which is the very definition of racism. I'm in the process of penning a blog post which will go into this in more detail, and which I'll invite him to comment on. I like to think (Don Hopkins' fearful warnings to the contrary) that he is a mostly reasonable person who could be convinced to change his opinion. It will also contain a strong rebuttal of his points around agency and consent in the casting couch article, which are dangerously wrong. So yes. With the caveat that it applies to only a subset of his stated opinions on race - I apologise and withdraw.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  I'm also waiting for you to retract and apologize for your outrageous and disproven claim parroting ESR's lie that "affirmative action is racism!!!1!". You incorrectly said "Affirmative action _is_ racism, by definition, assuming you mean by that: basing your decision to hire in part on race." That is wrong. Very wrong. It proves you have absolutely no clue what racism is, and the incorrect definition you're parroting and spreading is white supremacist propaganda. I quoted a paragraph from an article that put into words why you are so very wrong. But you did not respond. It's very telling what you choose to ignore. What is your response to the fact that you deeply misunderstand what racism is, and what is your excuse for believing and spreading that noxious ignorant racist white supremacist propaganda that originated from Eric Raymond's blog? Once that's settled, we can go on to discuss which of his lies about global warming you also believe and parrot. Good luck in your quest to cure ESR of his racism, misogyny and narcissism. Maybe only you can solve that problem. Once you find just the right words to shut him up and make him look at himself and reflect on what he's said and done and feel remorse, and then you actually get him to read them, pay attention and respond without attacking and dismissing you, then maybe you should dedicate your efforts to curing Donald Trump, too. And Scoble could also use some of your help, too. So get started, good luck with that, and let us know how it goes! ;)