6 ms·

While these are valid issues, there are big differences between the concerns of Masters and PhD students in the US that I think you conflating together. Doctor

While these are valid issues, there are big differences between the concerns of Masters and PhD students in the US that I think you conflating together. Doctoral students at major research universities rarely pay tuition, particularly at a place as highly ranked as UChicago, and usually are given a large enough stipend to live off of (1). Relative to the amount of work, however, the pay is low and the number of faculty jobs on the other end of this is shrinking. Masters students on the other hand typically do not engage in their own independent research nor do they teach their own classes. They are basically treated like undergraduates with a harder course load. The tuitions for Masters degrees (for which few scholarships are available), on the other hand, are outrageously high. (1) [https://grad.uchicago.edu/admissions/funding/doctoral](https://grad.uchicago.edu/admissions/funding/doctoral) https://grad.uchicago.edu/admissions/funding/doctoral](https...

spamizbad 9y ago
UChicago is notoriously stingy stipend-wise for top-tier school. A good friend ultimately went to Yale because their stipend nearly double.... also they were Yale.
- santaclaus 9y ago
  > also they were Yale Depends what you are studying. Their CS department is notoriously shoddy (I know the Yale undergrads were up in arms about this a few years back).
  - kchoudhu 9y ago
    It's also undergrad, so the quality of the department doesn't actually matter. You also get to put Yale on your resume.
llccbb 9y ago
In many of the physical sciences both Masters and PhD students are usually paid a living wage, do not pay tuition, and work double or triple duty as student, teacher, researcher. These students usually do not accrue additional debt beyond what was needed for their undergraduate degree (if any). Despite their importance to many parts of the university system such as instruction, research, and funding (NSF proposals that don't have explicit funding for grad students are D.O.A.), they can still be treated pretty unfairly. Given the hours they work, it is still most common for them to be on the books as part-time employees (0.49 full-time) which cuts off access to employee sponsored health care that is mandated under the ACA. In almost all cases they have no benefits outside of tuition payment. I think grad students unionizing is a fantastic idea. They are in every way the critical grease that keeps the capitalistic university system running. They should be able to protect themselves and have a stronger impact in how the universities are run. The only concern I have is the huge turnover. Unions are most effective and most rationale when the members are committed for life. The longest any of these students could be there is 15 years (5 masters, 10 PhD). This would be very extreme. Most are looking to be out in 2-6 years. Are there any other examples of unions for occupations that have mandatory turnover or term limits?
- kevindong 9y ago
  > Given the hours they work, it is still most common for them to be on the books as part-time employees (0.49 full-time) which cuts off access to employee sponsored health care that is mandated under the ACA. In almost all cases they have no benefits outside of tuition payment. As far as I'm aware, all reputable American colleges will do the following for graduate students who are teaching assistants: 1) waive tuition 2) pay for the majority of a health insurance plan 3) issue a modest living stipend that's enough to live on, albeit not very comfortably. I know this is the case for Purdue.
  - munin 9y ago
    Many won't pay for health insurance, or if they do, it is the health insurance that only gets you access to the student health center, which is basically just a dispenser of tylenol and condoms. Most will waive "tuition" but won't waive "fees" which can still be substantial (10% of your take home pay, in my case). This was at a top-10-for-CS grad program.
  - TJSomething 9y ago
    My experience in my CS MS was that there was ~50% discount on tuition, a subsidized health insurance plan, and not quite enough to live on.
    - secabeen 9y ago
      MS is often a different deal that PhD or MS/PhD.
      - Fomite 9y ago
        Indeed, in my field, terminal Masters students are a profit center.
    - azinman2 9y ago
      Top tier usesally doesn’t have terminal MS. MS means you didn’t cut it or you want out. In either case they pay you.
foobarian 9y ago
I feel like Masters degrees have become a way for immigrants to get a foot in the door by buying some time to get a H1 job. Citizens in master's programs that I've seen usually just end up there by tacking on a bit of extra time to their undergrad tenure.
luckydude 9y ago
Masters from UW-Madison here. Got it in 1987. Back then, I did pay tuition but it was super cheap, like $2400/year. The TA pay (I taught the intro to programming class) was about $16K/year for 2 semesters of teaching. It was just enough to live on. I've got a kid going into math who wants a PhD. I'd love to see what that looks like for him at various good universities (maybe it's lower in the comments).

spamizbad 9y ago

UChicago is notoriously stingy stipend-wise for top-tier school. A good friend ultimately went to Yale because their stipend nearly double.... also they were Yale.

santaclaus 9y ago
> also they were Yale Depends what you are studying. Their CS department is notoriously shoddy (I know the Yale undergrads were up in arms about this a few years back).
- kchoudhu 9y ago
  It's also undergrad, so the quality of the department doesn't actually matter. You also get to put Yale on your resume.

llccbb 9y ago

In many of the physical sciences both Masters and PhD students are usually paid a living wage, do not pay tuition, and work double or triple duty as student, teacher, researcher. These students usually do not accrue additional debt beyond what was needed for their undergraduate degree (if any). Despite their importance to many parts of the university system such as instruction, research, and funding (NSF proposals that don't have explicit funding for grad students are D.O.A.), they can still be treated pretty unfairly. Given the hours they work, it is still most common for them to be on the books as part-time employees (0.49 full-time) which cuts off access to employee sponsored health care that is mandated under the ACA. In almost all cases they have no benefits outside of tuition payment. I think grad students unionizing is a fantastic idea. They are in every way the critical grease that keeps the capitalistic university system running. They should be able to protect themselves and have a stronger impact in how the universities are run. The only concern I have is the huge turnover. Unions are most effective and most rationale when the members are committed for life. The longest any of these students could be there is 15 years (5 masters, 10 PhD). This would be very extreme. Most are looking to be out in 2-6 years. Are there any other examples of unions for occupations that have mandatory turnover or term limits?

kevindong 9y ago
> Given the hours they work, it is still most common for them to be on the books as part-time employees (0.49 full-time) which cuts off access to employee sponsored health care that is mandated under the ACA. In almost all cases they have no benefits outside of tuition payment. As far as I'm aware, all reputable American colleges will do the following for graduate students who are teaching assistants: 1) waive tuition 2) pay for the majority of a health insurance plan 3) issue a modest living stipend that's enough to live on, albeit not very comfortably. I know this is the case for Purdue.
- munin 9y ago
  Many won't pay for health insurance, or if they do, it is the health insurance that only gets you access to the student health center, which is basically just a dispenser of tylenol and condoms. Most will waive "tuition" but won't waive "fees" which can still be substantial (10% of your take home pay, in my case). This was at a top-10-for-CS grad program.
- TJSomething 9y ago
  My experience in my CS MS was that there was ~50% discount on tuition, a subsidized health insurance plan, and not quite enough to live on.
  - secabeen 9y ago
    MS is often a different deal that PhD or MS/PhD.
    - Fomite 9y ago
      Indeed, in my field, terminal Masters students are a profit center.
  - azinman2 9y ago
    Top tier usesally doesn’t have terminal MS. MS means you didn’t cut it or you want out. In either case they pay you.

foobarian 9y ago

I feel like Masters degrees have become a way for immigrants to get a foot in the door by buying some time to get a H1 job. Citizens in master's programs that I've seen usually just end up there by tacking on a bit of extra time to their undergrad tenure.

luckydude 9y ago

Masters from UW-Madison here. Got it in 1987. Back then, I did pay tuition but it was super cheap, like $2400/year. The TA pay (I taught the intro to programming class) was about $16K/year for 2 semesters of teaching. It was just enough to live on. I've got a kid going into math who wants a PhD. I'd love to see what that looks like for him at various good universities (maybe it's lower in the comments).