3 ms·

> studies have shown MDMA users to literally have shrunken bits of their brain. http://www.maps.org/news/media/2462-media-reports-of-ecstasy.. http://www.maps.o

by eric_h 9y ago

> studies have shown MDMA users to literally have shrunken bits of their brain. http://www.maps.org/news/media/2462-media-reports-of-ecstasy.. http://www.maps.org/news/media/2462-media-reports-of-ecstasy.... I only had a chance to skim that article, but it is equating tablets of ecstasy with MDMA, which is a false equivalence. "Ecstasy tablets" usually contain some MDMA, but can also contain a whole bunch of other shit, including cocaine, heroine, speed, MDA, etc. I think the jury's still out on whether pure MDMA has the same downsides from frequent use.

taneq 9y ago
And even then, there's a huge difference between "frequent recreational use" (and it's not uncommon for recreational users to take 10+ pills in a night, and to use every weekend) and "theraputic use". Habitual club users do tend to get pretty fuzzy after a while but they're not using the drug in any remotely responsible way. Taking them as a reason to keep MDMA illegal is like saying that drunks exist and so doctors shouldn't be allowed to use alcohol swabs.
- throwawayofc 9y ago
  I dunno about other places, but in Europe the average dose in a single tablet is ~200mg. This is largely due to a stupid law in the Netherlands where getting caught with a single tablet got you a slap on the wrist, but getting caught with multiple would have them try to pin "dealer" on you. The result is that in the past 10 years or so, the average dose per tablet went from 30mg to 200mg and I've even seen pills of 270mg (we have free, anonymous testing labs). On the bright side, they are much less often contaminated with amphetamines and caffeine nowadays... AFAIK, the LD50 of MDMA isn't known, but as a frequent recreational user I can tell you that taking over 2000mg in a single night is definitely not common. I know a lot of people who use recreationally on a frequent basis, and none of them will go over 400mg on a night, and even 400 is considered pretty bonkers. Most folks who use every weekend are probably pretty new to the experience and haven't noticed the side effects when using more than once per month.
  - taneq 9y ago
    Wow, that's way larger a dose per pill than used to be common when I got my information. Goes to show how much local scene knowledge you need in order to have a chance of trying these substances safely, which is one of my big gripes with the 'war on drugs' phenomenon. Prohibition is definitely a case where the cure is worse than the disease.
55555 9y ago
You are generally correct but I just want to add: tablets sold as ecstasy almost never contain heroin. See here: https://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=substance&s=heroin https://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field... The most common additives are caffeine and methamphetamine, but 50%+ of the time, the pills are uncut MDMA. And these stats are distorted pessimistically, as people who are confident in what they are buying aren't likely to send drugs they paid for off to be tested. https://www.ecstasydata.org/stats.php https://www.ecstasydata.org/stats.php

by eric_h 9y ago

taneq 9y ago

And even then, there's a huge difference between "frequent recreational use" (and it's not uncommon for recreational users to take 10+ pills in a night, and to use every weekend) and "theraputic use". Habitual club users do tend to get pretty fuzzy after a while but they're not using the drug in any remotely responsible way. Taking them as a reason to keep MDMA illegal is like saying that drunks exist and so doctors shouldn't be allowed to use alcohol swabs.

throwawayofc 9y ago
I dunno about other places, but in Europe the average dose in a single tablet is ~200mg. This is largely due to a stupid law in the Netherlands where getting caught with a single tablet got you a slap on the wrist, but getting caught with multiple would have them try to pin "dealer" on you. The result is that in the past 10 years or so, the average dose per tablet went from 30mg to 200mg and I've even seen pills of 270mg (we have free, anonymous testing labs). On the bright side, they are much less often contaminated with amphetamines and caffeine nowadays... AFAIK, the LD50 of MDMA isn't known, but as a frequent recreational user I can tell you that taking over 2000mg in a single night is definitely not common. I know a lot of people who use recreationally on a frequent basis, and none of them will go over 400mg on a night, and even 400 is considered pretty bonkers. Most folks who use every weekend are probably pretty new to the experience and haven't noticed the side effects when using more than once per month.
- taneq 9y ago
  Wow, that's way larger a dose per pill than used to be common when I got my information. Goes to show how much local scene knowledge you need in order to have a chance of trying these substances safely, which is one of my big gripes with the 'war on drugs' phenomenon. Prohibition is definitely a case where the cure is worse than the disease.

55555 9y ago

You are generally correct but I just want to add: tablets sold as ecstasy almost never contain heroin. See here: https://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=substance&s=heroin https://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field... The most common additives are caffeine and methamphetamine, but 50%+ of the time, the pills are uncut MDMA. And these stats are distorted pessimistically, as people who are confident in what they are buying aren't likely to send drugs they paid for off to be tested. https://www.ecstasydata.org/stats.php https://www.ecstasydata.org/stats.php