4 ms·

Commenting is failure, as it always just sucks you into more commenting. What a strange remark from one of hn's best commenters. It's not necessarily the choi

by edw519 16y ago

Commenting is failure, as it always just sucks you into more commenting. What a strange remark from one of hn's best commenters. It's not necessarily the choice of posts that distinguish hn, but the discussions hanging from them. Those discussions need worthwhile comments. Like the ones you consistently make, Daniel. Please keep making them. Commenting can be failure, but only if you let it. Personally, I rarely respond to challenges to my comments. Engagement in debate can easily lead to lost time. (And others usually respond before I return, anyway). Not every minute of your day has to be invested in today's programming goal. Think of your comments as deposits into some kind of "knowledge bank". There may be dividends later, maybe tomorrow, maybe 6 months from now. Maybe for you, maybe for someone else. Either way, "failure" is the last word I would use to describe anyone's investment into this community.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
Ed, you are correct. Yet we disagree. I'm not saying that comments don't provide useful pieces of information to the world at large, searchable and present for future generations to read. Of course they do. I'm not saying (as other commenters have sad) that comments have no value. Every now and then I get some really good pieces of information from comments. But total value and net present value are different concepts. Case in point: I made the parent comment, then logged off. Today I'm pretty sleepy, so I am having a hard time focusing. 15 minutes later I'm thinking "wonder if they downvoted me over on HN?" so I pop back over. What?!? A score of 15? Perhaps it was because I prefaced my remark with "you guys are going to kick me in the ass" Take note of the comments. Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point. I have found that when I post a comment read by 10K people, 40 or 50 will take it the wrong way. These are folks that if you try to engage will just argue with you. Close the window. Ten minutes later pop back. Score up again, eh? There might be a good discussion that hangs off this. Bears paying attention to. But must get to work. Close window. Five minutes later, back over here again. See your comment. Well heck, I'm not saying it's all bad. I should type a pithy response. Ed has a good point. Yes, to future generations who are googling for specific data these conversations are going to be a goldmine, hopefully. For us, every now and then, you get something awesome -- just enough to keep you participating. But overall does the participating directly relate to the work you have planned for yourself today -- programming, hiking, reading, whatever. Or when you find a "goodie" do you use it to justify all the time spent? It's the Facebook question -- people you like, giving you pieces of information that from time-to-time are valuable, letting you feel part of a group -- something good for you or something sucking you in? Future generations, sure. Getting things you can find nowhere else? Absolutely. But in the present sense, in the next hour, for the next minute -- best use of time? Am I selecting to use it, or is it (and the great people who participate!) sucking me in and then I'm rationalizing? I can't answer the question for others. Took me a long time to figure this out for myself, and as I am now showing, I am not very good at listening to my own advice :)
- lhorie 16y ago
  >> But overall does the participating directly relate to the work you have planned for yourself today If you consider breaks important (e.g. for organizing thoughts, etc), I'd say yes, this beats water cooler chit-chat about Starcraft 2, for the reasons ed mentioned. I completely agree on the point about HN being a time/mindshare drain though.
- jmatt 16y ago
  Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point. Many people get your point but don't comment to say so. Making (pithy sarcastic lol agree simple rude first ...) comments is generally unacceptable on HN unless you are one of those few people who has name recognition. I agree with you that commenting can generally be distracting and conversations and responses can linger as a distraction. Sometimes that is what I'm looking for and I comment and sometimes I want to comment but just know it could suck up the rest of my day. Obviously some people are not affected by this. But I can relate to what you are saying. The best advice - do what is best for you. You shouldn't feel obligated to participate.
- todayiamme 16y ago
  >>>Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point.<<< You know this happens a lot in real life too. It's as if people don't listen to listen. They listen to dash off their own insightful reply. Maybe it isn't this forum or any other thing, but simply a cultural bias that exists in most of us and is magnified on the internet. On the other hand, you're absolutely right and it's time for me to shut down this machine.
- sesqu 16y ago
  I used to do such reading and commenting in the evenings. Never really had much problem with wondering if they've answered to me now, since I had a list of things to read and then I'd get sleepy and not comment on anything more. Sometimes I'd get an urge to check in the morning or midday, but that wasn't the time. The obvious downside was that I often stayed up too late, and ended up amassing bookmarks. I'd say it was still better than my current schedule, where I read some comments whenever I'm not doing anything else, like in the mornings, and then intermittently throughout the day. In light of that, I'd suggest you try reading HN only in the evenings, unless you already have something else to fill that time (like, say, The Simpsons). Topic churn will be a problem, but perhaps there the cure will be in not seeing the problem.
first 16y ago
i personally always thought that HN ratings and comment rates is very very bad, the ratings are an indications that most visitor are very main-stream , very main stream, original thinking and humor is punished and burried comments should have never had a rating , this killed the site, invited karma collectors , promoted censorship and mediocrity i hope PG can come to his senses and remove this misfeature HN was a lot better before this feature was added

by edw519 16y ago

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

Ed, you are correct. Yet we disagree. I'm not saying that comments don't provide useful pieces of information to the world at large, searchable and present for future generations to read. Of course they do. I'm not saying (as other commenters have sad) that comments have no value. Every now and then I get some really good pieces of information from comments. But total value and net present value are different concepts. Case in point: I made the parent comment, then logged off. Today I'm pretty sleepy, so I am having a hard time focusing. 15 minutes later I'm thinking "wonder if they downvoted me over on HN?" so I pop back over. What?!? A score of 15? Perhaps it was because I prefaced my remark with "you guys are going to kick me in the ass" Take note of the comments. Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point. I have found that when I post a comment read by 10K people, 40 or 50 will take it the wrong way. These are folks that if you try to engage will just argue with you. Close the window. Ten minutes later pop back. Score up again, eh? There might be a good discussion that hangs off this. Bears paying attention to. But must get to work. Close window. Five minutes later, back over here again. See your comment. Well heck, I'm not saying it's all bad. I should type a pithy response. Ed has a good point. Yes, to future generations who are googling for specific data these conversations are going to be a goldmine, hopefully. For us, every now and then, you get something awesome -- just enough to keep you participating. But overall does the participating directly relate to the work you have planned for yourself today -- programming, hiking, reading, whatever. Or when you find a "goodie" do you use it to justify all the time spent? It's the Facebook question -- people you like, giving you pieces of information that from time-to-time are valuable, letting you feel part of a group -- something good for you or something sucking you in? Future generations, sure. Getting things you can find nowhere else? Absolutely. But in the present sense, in the next hour, for the next minute -- best use of time? Am I selecting to use it, or is it (and the great people who participate!) sucking me in and then I'm rationalizing? I can't answer the question for others. Took me a long time to figure this out for myself, and as I am now showing, I am not very good at listening to my own advice :)

lhorie 16y ago
>> But overall does the participating directly relate to the work you have planned for yourself today If you consider breaks important (e.g. for organizing thoughts, etc), I'd say yes, this beats water cooler chit-chat about Starcraft 2, for the reasons ed mentioned. I completely agree on the point about HN being a time/mindshare drain though.
jmatt 16y ago
Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point. Many people get your point but don't comment to say so. Making (pithy sarcastic lol agree simple rude first ...) comments is generally unacceptable on HN unless you are one of those few people who has name recognition. I agree with you that commenting can generally be distracting and conversations and responses can linger as a distraction. Sometimes that is what I'm looking for and I comment and sometimes I want to comment but just know it could suck up the rest of my day. Obviously some people are not affected by this. But I can relate to what you are saying. The best advice - do what is best for you. You shouldn't feel obligated to participate.
todayiamme 16y ago
>>>Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point.<<< You know this happens a lot in real life too. It's as if people don't listen to listen. They listen to dash off their own insightful reply. Maybe it isn't this forum or any other thing, but simply a cultural bias that exists in most of us and is magnified on the internet. On the other hand, you're absolutely right and it's time for me to shut down this machine.
sesqu 16y ago
I used to do such reading and commenting in the evenings. Never really had much problem with wondering if they've answered to me now, since I had a list of things to read and then I'd get sleepy and not comment on anything more. Sometimes I'd get an urge to check in the morning or midday, but that wasn't the time. The obvious downside was that I often stayed up too late, and ended up amassing bookmarks. I'd say it was still better than my current schedule, where I read some comments whenever I'm not doing anything else, like in the mornings, and then intermittently throughout the day. In light of that, I'd suggest you try reading HN only in the evenings, unless you already have something else to fill that time (like, say, The Simpsons). Topic churn will be a problem, but perhaps there the cure will be in not seeing the problem.

first 16y ago

i personally always thought that HN ratings and comment rates is very very bad, the ratings are an indications that most visitor are very main-stream , very main stream, original thinking and humor is punished and burried comments should have never had a rating , this killed the site, invited karma collectors , promoted censorship and mediocrity i hope PG can come to his senses and remove this misfeature HN was a lot better before this feature was added