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> clueless software engineers I think it's a bit unfair to assume out of hand that they'll be clueless. . The other side of the coin is that new ideas often

> clueless software engineers I think it's a bit unfair to assume out of hand that they'll be clueless. . The other side of the coin is that new ideas often come from outside of a field. Sometimes expertise can mean expertise in the established, unquestioned dogma of a field. (I'm saying that as a matter of principle. I don't know specifically what it's like in this case). I definitely think we need more experimentation in society - small experiments to test out ideas, where successes can be copied elsewhere in the country and world.

acdha 9y ago
One look at how badly google has managed their online communities, support, etc. suggests that this should be assumed until proven otherwise. There’s just such a track record of trying to conflate problems which can be automated with the problems the real world actually has.
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  They've handled a number of things poorly. But they're not a monolithic entity, and I don't think we can make assumptions about exactly who will be involved with this and how they'll handle it. Why do we need to assume anything now, anyway? I think it's appropriate to be agnostic about it. We can't know until if and when it happens.
  - throwaway2048 9y ago
    because by the time problems become blindingly apparent in parts of the city that have already been redeveloped, they are effectively unfixable.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    This isn't an app, we're talking about here. These are people's lives.
  - acdha 9y ago
    Because this matters more than A/B testing the right way to get people to click on an ad. Some of these things could be easy to ignore but once you’re talking about building or traffic design, mistakes can take decades to fix and have a negative impact on people’s lives throughout that period.
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    As a reply to all the sibling comments: it's right to have concerns, and that is completely compatible with being agnostic about it. Being agnostic means not forming judgements if you don't have adequate information to do so. You can have concerns but that's different from acting like you know they actually will be problems. When it comes to serious issues, with serious consequences, it's even more important to withhold any definitive judgement until you have adequate information! So many problems in the world seem to come down to people too hastily jumping to conclusions.

acdha 9y ago

One look at how badly google has managed their online communities, support, etc. suggests that this should be assumed until proven otherwise. There’s just such a track record of trying to conflate problems which can be automated with the problems the real world actually has.

jamesrcole 9y ago
They've handled a number of things poorly. But they're not a monolithic entity, and I don't think we can make assumptions about exactly who will be involved with this and how they'll handle it. Why do we need to assume anything now, anyway? I think it's appropriate to be agnostic about it. We can't know until if and when it happens.
- throwaway2048 9y ago
  because by the time problems become blindingly apparent in parts of the city that have already been redeveloped, they are effectively unfixable.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  This isn't an app, we're talking about here. These are people's lives.
- acdha 9y ago
  Because this matters more than A/B testing the right way to get people to click on an ad. Some of these things could be easy to ignore but once you’re talking about building or traffic design, mistakes can take decades to fix and have a negative impact on people’s lives throughout that period.
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  As a reply to all the sibling comments: it's right to have concerns, and that is completely compatible with being agnostic about it. Being agnostic means not forming judgements if you don't have adequate information to do so. You can have concerns but that's different from acting like you know they actually will be problems. When it comes to serious issues, with serious consequences, it's even more important to withhold any definitive judgement until you have adequate information! So many problems in the world seem to come down to people too hastily jumping to conclusions.